Speaking Club Debate: Should There be Politics in Sports?

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a little different a little bit more

topical more current current affairs

Let's uh let's remember what we're here

for guys a bit of English practice with

uh in a different format you know says a

different way of of practicing your

English skills the topic for today uh

should there be politics in sports very

current obviously with the FIFA FIFA

World Cup happening right now being uh

being in the news all the time

um who wants to go first I just want to

say remember guys we're here just to

have some fun and practice English first

of all we're not here to push opinions

it's not about arguing or fighting it's

just discussion uh yes George

yeah my first point is to understand

what is really the relationship between

sports and politics and I think politics

and sports operates off or at many

levels in that topic and the most people

wish we need to separate Sports and

politics but I think it's not

um possible to inter insurable oh my God

hard to pronounce and the sports on

politicians both from both of the

influence both sides at the same time

that's my first point

uh you mean it's not possible to

separate the two is that what you just

said yeah I mean that's not possible to

separate the politicians uh from the

sports guys okay so your the question

for you is not so much should there be

politics in sports but in your opinion

there is politics in sports and there's

nothing you can really do about it

anyways absolutely okay uh cool very

interesting thank you very much I see I

see Heinrich has uh his hand raised yes

I wouldn't I wouldn't say that it's bad

if there are some politics and sports

because politics is everywhere but I

think this way like it is in the last

few years I really hate that

um that I hate those black lives matter

things which were apparently a pressure

on people they were forced to

participate and I hate

that kind of manifestation which are

sorry sorry

let me let me start sorry Henry let me

stop you for a second uh let's let's uh

go from George's uh uh from what George

said do you agree that Sports and

politics are inevitably connected

yeah I agree with that but I think there

are good connections and bad connections

the old good connection was like like it

was in the in the in the old Greece

where there was a piece when there was a

sports event and where people met and it

was a it was a good kind of politics but

what at the moment happens in many parts

of the world is a bad version of that

for example if a government tries to

make some governmental advertisement or

jingle by using his Sports people and I

think something like that always happens

at it at the time for example if what

happened with uh with those uh rainbow

colors in Qatar that was more or less

governmental uh politics which was put

into I I don't I don't think that the

the sports men were asked what they what

what they think but they were forced to

do that otherwise they would have lost

their millions and that and that's

something which I hate

okay so in your opinion opinion Sports

and politics are intertwined but there

are good connections and bad connections

and uh in your opinion what's happening

right now it's more about government

agenda maybe politicians pushing

messages rather than athletes themselves

is that what you're saying okay thank

you very much Heinrich yes Daria

uh yeah I just agree with previous two

points and want to add that uh of course

it can be avoidable I mean politics in

any sphere of our our lives but it must

be regulate the relationship between

sports and political politics

uh also I think that the situation is

because of lack of rules and to avoid

pressure from government

we need to establish some rules and but

still Sportsmen like a person can be

able to display their opinion because

they influence people they they have to

be responsible of their fans and it just

can't yeah it can be avoidable so it

must be established in some way and yeah

it's my main point we need to work it

work on it instead okay

right so you kind of agree that sport

there will always be politics in sports

but what we should try to do is not get

politics out of sport but try to

regulate politics in sport and try to

get the message from the athletes

instead of what Heinrich is saying the

the government pushing messages that

they want or the events being used uh by

different entities than the athletes

themselves

yeah it's

um like in a nutshell Sportsman it's not

a tools but there is a person so they

must show their okay so Sportsmen as

individuals should be allowed to say

whatever they want to say uh without

government interference okay yeah thank

you very much Daria yes archim

oh I'm sorry sorry I'm sorry Costa uh do

you know how to raise the hand there is

on Zoom there is a raise hand uh button

I think I saw you trying to raise the

hand like this there is actually a

button somewhere yeah

it just uh deep thinking sorry okay okay

okay no no problem I thought I thought

you were okay no problem sorry archim

yes

yes yes and in general I agree with all

that points we we can't divide because

Sports is is part of our life like like

politics so we can't we can't divide or

separate uh one thing from another but

uh but you know it it for me it sounds

uh

okay uh how to be more a more politic

politically correct I mean it's all some

a little I don't understand how we can

uh

regulate that question because we we

came to the corner for in into in in

three turns like uh Sportsman's uh

should have ability to express their own

uh ideas and Views but how we can

control is it their own ideas or views

or not it's it's it's really it's really

impossible you know we came to the Conan

to into three turns so that's why I

don't think that it's it's a good idea

to talk about some rules and

restrictions and we have to uh uh we

have and again that's why I think that

we can't divide one a source from

politics and that's why we uh shouldn't

restrict that process anyway

again and I'm against it to be honest

I'm I think I I'm against about such

ideas that we should uh separate

politics from Sports and because of of

that what I just have explained it's

impossible it's it's it's I I don't

understand how to do it so okay so so I

say yo I mean you're kind of like you

said agreeing with everybody and that

there are politics there will always be

politics in sports maybe we should

regulate but you're in your opinion

regulating is yeah exactly you don't

think regulation would work because if

we prevent governments from influencing

how how can you possibly prevent

governments from influencing they could

directly influence the athletes and use

them as mouth pieces

um

regulations yeah exactly so so you kind

of raise an interesting question

regulation sounds good but how can we

possibly regulate fairly as well

um yeah I to be honest I may add a

little regulations doesn't sound good I

don't not sound good so by you're saying

regulation doesn't sound good because

you don't think you can't think of a way

to apply it fairly and in a way that

works so it because of that then you

think that there shouldn't be any

regulation then it's more fair that way

is that what you mean

yeah

okay cool thank you

uh all right wow yeah regulation

um could it work how would it work

interesting points raised

politics in sports yes

I think is it time for mate I think it's

time for mate yes

I want to escape some sometimes

okay

and my favorite philosopher in ancient

times is protogoras

and you know I'm interested in

philosophy protocols says that the man

is the measure of everything in the

world

if the man is good or

everything can be good I think and I

agree with George Hendrick Daria and

artem in means of that there is

necessary connection between sports and

politics in the world and we cannot say

that

I defense for instance I defense that

there shouldn't be politics in sports

it's impossible

we we cannot deny it at the same time I

can say that everything is related to

commercialism

advertisement and money in globalization

I think for instance wrestling is not so

popular among the people in the world

but football is so popular and we we

heard some news about Senegal Brazilia

turkey Ukraine and some other countries

in the world after World Cup

for instance in 2002 I I heard some

something about Senegal it's for me it's

it's first it was first there was that

there is a country and its name is

Senegal at Ukraine and some other

countries for some countries and

societies far from us so we can say that

without politics it cannot be Sports

involved and we we cannot think Sports

without politics this is my position

boys

okay so you're saying that Sports in

politics cannot be separated there will

always be politics in sports

um I feel like we're all kind of in

agreement on this I think I mean not

including myself I'm just saying like

everyone is kind of agreeing with this

point that Sports and politics cannot be

separated

there's the question of Regulation that

maybe maybe not

um I don't know where do we go from here

what about uh

I don't know maybe maybe let's try to go

with a new point if someone has a new

Point

um normally I would go with everyone uh

yeah Erica let's go let's go where is he

at first uh yeah I think uh in the sport

is about uh play sporty for play in a

good manner so I I don't think that

let's say I want to play a chess with my

friend that's a sport or I want to play

a tennis ball with my friend I think it

is a sport but we don't have to it

doesn't have to include or involve the

politics right so but I know when the

when we are dealing with the the big

team like a national team which is

funded by the government and the

government itself is a product of the

politics I think this is not really uh

they are not in Inseparable but with I

we we need but we still need to

Define our separate the politic things

uh with sports because let's say if I am

a a son of a sport Minister let's say

and my father want to me want me to be

in the part of the national team maybe

he just said to the you know person in

charge to put me in the team I think

that's a the bad politic that play in in

that situation so I think yes uh uh we

we can divide uh between the politic

situation and also support since the

sport itself is about you know a

responsive thing or the the situation

that that happen in a good way so yeah

that's that's right opinion thank you

you raised an interesting point I think

and one we all assume from the start

when we say sports we're talking about

huge international events but Sports is

more than that right playing chess with

your friend can be Sports

um little teams you know just local

teams or should there be politics in

those places too where is uh and then

you kind of make the connection the

national teams being funded by the

government they inherently are part of

politics they they then it's just

unavoidable

um okay I think the connection you make

with the uh the the son of the sports

Minister being uh guaranteed a place

through his connections is a little bit

more into the the field of like bribes

and corruption in sports which I don't

really want to touch on today because I

think that's another debate

but uh I think yeah I think we can stick

to to politics thank you very much sir

uh just before we go back to you guys

let's say from Costa and more right

costia yes should there be politics in

sports is it avoidable how do you agree

disagree what do you think so

um first of all my first and my first

thing was I'm again I'm against and the

main question was politics or sports or

sports for politics and the question is

difficult and I I heard I've heard the

almost all uh speakers and that that set

the good arguments and my conclusion but

for this minute is it depends on on

result on some context of what what

politics what to wants to uh to get

um and uh why because I agree we cannot

separate the politics in sports because

the politics is more abstract thing and

politics everywhere because it's like

like main thing on logical like social

mechanics something like this

but the main thing that the previous

speaker said that how it could be

ecologic for for involving for example

uh in for example in politics or

government

wants to

wants to

um share some opinion some good opinion

or Soul City

and and then get better life in the

country for example and this poetic

that's okay for in sports is like uh

like

um some some good tools for this but

from Another Side it's not okay when the

someone once wants to abuse

a society by politics and the conclusion

of food it depends on not between

politics or or or or government and what

uh what will we get

from from this

combination I think it's interesting uh

thank you very much so I'd like to go

back to what you said in the beginning

which was that when you arrived into

this discussion and your mind was like

we we should separate them what was your

reasoning then like how how did you see

it then before you heard the speakers

right when in your mind it should be

separated

what were your initial arguments just to

try and get some some perspective from

from the other side I feel like we're

agreeing too much here

so of course the the sport should be

without politics because the first of

all and it is an example of of

possibility of our body of our uh like

like not spell like in internal uh

culture or you know our world and uh it

could be like entertainment I don't want

to to to get toxic news for example or

some concrete things I want to relax I

want to rest I want to live this small

small

piece of uh thank you yeah I I

understand your your argument and I'm

glad you made it I think I think that's

a valid one you know like the the

function of sports the purpose of sports

one of just relaxation and fun and

bringing messages heavy messages

sometimes political messages when you're

just trying to relax and have have a

good time maybe it's not the right place

right time and place this video on

YouTube with Bill Burr talking about

this

it's funny

um yeah but thank you you know it's uh

we're not here to uh to try to change

Minds necessarily we're just here to

discuss it and I'm glad I'm glad we

could hear your opinion uh when you came

into this uh this discussion because I

think I think that's an interesting

point to make that the you know the

purpose of sports could be just having

fun like I don't want to hear about

problems I can hear about problems when

I just watch the news right we have 24

hours news cycle now so it's not it's

not like I I could miss it uh thank you

very much costia yes Morad

yeah and finally

I must say something yes

first of all

I am convinced it for impossible

separate uh Olympic game our world

championship it's politic because

in beginning

uh first world Place who is

uh made this fact it's Greece I think

what does it mean for they dry unifying

all population

and Achieve something it's mean for I

don't know do something with comment

like uh it's uh all population for

everyone uh

have an idea or

accomplish something

Maybe

enter But now in Modern Life I think

it's getting related directly with

a lot of amount money big amount money

it's it's it is too much uh have effect

in all world because it's type of

community all world who is membership or

who is alone

oh and what else

it's something one

it's impossible uh divide and uh about

video

I think like I said before I just show

her it's a

it's American character for they have

always they your own opinion but that

doesn't mean for all words agree with

them

because uh Americans it's Americans that

over it over I I'm for sure for uh

England population have other opinion or

German population or Turkish or Russian

or so on so on any country have your own

opinion

okay thank you very much I think I think

they're like four different points that

you made uh let me let me see if I can

remember some of them

the first one is you go back to what

everyone has kind of been saying that

it's impossible to separate Sports and

politics right the second one you talk

about the history of these international

events you talk specifically about

Olympics and international events saying

that they were born in politics in a way

they were created as a way to show uh or

to unite people uh throughout the world

you're absolutely right even I don't

know I don't remember how I'm just

saying what you said so in Greece but

it's uh even there are time it's a

people government try Africa or

population suggest ideas

okay okay let me go back let me go back

to to your to your points uh the third

point you were making is that it's all

about money now

do you mean like Beyond politics

um

do you mean Beyond politics but okay

what is how you can imagine politic

without money or money without politics

it's impossible okay so for you because

of the money involved it's become even

more kind of connected to politics

because it's the importance and the the

financial situation of the event makes

it political by nature and ideas

and the fourth point you make is

something about Americans

I'm not too sure they are American

because American always unique it's

because any American have your own

opinion it's not the same Euro Euro

Union or some

things okay yeah different cultures have

different perspectives uh different

individuals have different perspectives

so I'm not too sure we talk about

American culture American culture okay

well I think I think that's a different

debate man

I think I think that's enough

no I'm trying to see how it ties into

should there be politics in sports

uh your fourth Point The Impossible

separate okay all right yeah thank you

very much Morad thank you so much uh yes

let's go to George I feel George has a

lot to say now he's been listening and

waiting

I'll wait but let me some uh think add

to murad's opinion on that topic it's

like really quite interesting because I

think it is quite possible to separate

sporting from a political posturing as

we recognize the relationship between

politics and sports and give me I will

give you an example on that I think

to influence the society to influence

the economic what Murad said is in in

our recent years the Olympic Games the

Olympic sport games influence a lot and

also made the Olympic Games amid I think

constructive and positive contributions

to resolving political issues especially

you can see that worldwide before the

Olympic games starts and after that

political events such as the Civil Right

movements feminist movements and a very

a various of sporting events and the

best thing what you know is also what is

really Sports you describe that sport is

also private but Sports is also a

society and many sports were designed to

enforce social needs the best example I

think is the Japanese material Arts they

are celebrated as a mean as of Spiritual

Development and social ordering in Japan

or in the last 200 years cricket cricket

is very popular India but Cricket is an

instrument through which the victorians

in their times started to teach the

ruling class to rule and to to plebs to

or Buy in this time period from the

great Imperia that and both of them

that's yeah what I say it gets positive

it's negative aspect on that topic but

in general I would say it's possible

able to separate sporting from political

things and

the relationship between the politics

and the sports in private

but not worldwide that's my opinion on

the topic

okay so so in your opinion it's possible

to separate Sports and politics but not

when it gets to Olympics or

international events yeah but any kind

of smaller events it's possible to

separate the two and you also want to

highlight the fact that Sports has been

used throughout history as a political

tool

to maybe influence society and culture

in in places thank you very much for

summarizing yes Daria

yeah so I agree that with the previous

one but I want to answer for them from

the one from the past okay and about how

we can regulate this relationship and

maybe it will be

like

um not so adult

point of view but I truly believe that

we can we have to raise our Sportsmen

and other children too but Sportsman

mostly

um under understanding that they have a

right they well they finally will have a

responsibility and I think that it's

most powerful motivation that they will

have in the future that can separate

their opinion

uh with politician government opinion

you know so I mean that it's quite

important to understand to explain

people

that politics is quite important in

every day life and you can't avoid it

you have to participate in it if you go

to the top I'll I mean like uh if you

became as a famous person you have more

responsibility you have to do something

from yourself and I think that yeah it's

really just only one way how to erase

this awareness

started from the childhood and it came

not just for for the Sportsman also I

think that uh it's a good

uh phrase that if you can't win so then

lead this so I don't think that you can

avoid for beat everything in your life

especially politics in every areas and

if we all understand this

we need to

uh we need to realize how to work with

it how to so we need to put more efforts

toward this you know so and if only one

only one way that they see that to raise

our children by this way

um okay so you're talking you're going

back to uh the point you guys were

making I think archim raised the point

where it's like regulation how it's not

possible so let's just have just have no

regulation at all if you can't enforce

it all across the board fairly unequally

um and so you're saying that in your

opinion we should still try to regulate

and that it even goes beyond that it's

yeah I mean for example we raised our

children by respect to adults yeah from

their childhood and finally we get the

result that they respect adults yeah so

I think that it will work in any kind of

our I don't know

um

in any area you know so but uh if it

comes to sport as usual uh people try

just uh concentrate on Sport and only

sport you don't need to think about

everything around you and it's not right

and if we try to change it if we try to

include some part of politics or other

relationship from the childhood it will

be raised in this result so it's it will

be possible to regulate this

yeah I see by small I mean okay I think

I think it's I think it's interesting I

think there is one one thing I don't

really understand is

when you talk I feel like you're trying

to say that we have shared values across

all cultures in the world such as

respecting adults

um

do we

yeah no no it's uh but uh about doubts

just an example that will be understand

by other people that you can I I

understand I understand but I I'm just

questioning whether we do have these

shared values across all cultures in the

world because from my personal

experience the world is wildly different

in different places again not better or

worse just very different and sometimes

hard to understand as a foreigner

traveling to a different place things as

simple as you know respecting adults

maybe a very or respecting teachers or

education valuing education for example

it definitely is a lot more important in

some cultures than in other cultures

there is emphasis on groups versus

individual Dynamics in different places

I'm just uh not sure where would be this

um this shared kind of values because

you're talking about finding a way not

to just regulate sports but uh bring up

athletes from a young age to have good

values that they can share around the

world through their Fame and exposure

right I don't want to name it's like a

good or bad one you know just their one

so they have to have their own opinion

and yes of course our culture other

culture have other I don't know values

but if it comes in the world Ray uh

stage it must be somehow regulated and

they should also be able to express

their values even if they kind of go

against your own values that's what

you're saying say it again so so you're

saying that you want to bring up people

well and when they get to be uh athletes

or have this kind of exposure to be able

to talk about their message uh freely as

adults

um but what I'm saying is that the

people that you raise well with the

values that you think are good maybe go

against other people's values in other

places so should people with values that

go against your own also be able to

express themselves even though it kind

of goes against what you think and

believe yeah yeah yes okay of course it

seems that you it's not about that I

want to hear it's that what I want they

want to say and it's quite important to

understand that and uh like avoiding the

government pressure that try to force

their own goal or something like this

it's just it's I I don't want to create

the ideal world with ideal people they

think the same I like your work but it's

a nice world it's a nice situation with

other people thank you so much Daria

thank you so much I I was just trying to

really understand what you're saying

because I felt it was very important

thank you uh yes Heinrich

oh yum you did sorry

I I think Sports often is something like

politics and it works in a similar Way

There are rules rules which are

sometimes not respected and one can

experience about it and the results are

not so terrible in sports when one is

fighting but one is not killing and one

can change the rules

in politics of course one can change the

rules but that can can be very

disastrous if you if there are trained

too much a country can loss can lose a

lot of uh of uh standard of living or

whatever and in sports one can try it if

if somebody is it's not does not agree

with the rules in in football he can try

to find a new football company which has

slightly different rules and uh or or

another or he can change his Sports in

politics and a normal inhabitant of a

country cannot change much you can only

emigrate if it's too terrible but this

is a that is very bad so when can train

democracy but can train to accept what

uh What uh rules are but can train to

accept that rules can be changed one can

train to accept what the what's what's

the name of it

to what the judge in a sports that's

been saying uh he says sheets don't

German this is the judge who decides if

a if a well the referee the referee the

referee when when can train to accept

what a referee says and that's some kind

of fair play which can be very useful

for politics also if you are used to

think about laws about fairness and

about unfairness and so on that can be

can be very useful for living it peace

together on this world

I see so you're kind of going with the

psychoanalysts analysis here about being

using Sports as a way to

to train people to teach people to help

people function better and create better

societies

yeah is that everything do they have a

space it's about what I say

some kind of space where you can train

without making too much harm

training without harm all right thanks

so much Heinrich yes Morad let's do this

yes it's it's about what I said before

because it's in in beginning it is this

idea in big sport Olympic game United in

effect in population do better but

if you look at him don't in transparent

I don't know it's how it's alcoholic

work or not it's this uh thing you

understand or can you imagine any teams

now without Club

who is investigating a lot of money with

these were teams or something it doesn't

matter it's not about soccer it can be

about basketball box or any sport

but who is related with money who will

of course with regulation I like it this

world regulation it's really it's

precondition regulation it's mean for it

is politic who is this side who can

participate who can't participate

because you haven't money

or something else

all right so you're kind of type of it's

this type of influence in uh on in

population and world of course so money

it's all about money

money makes everything money makes the

sports and decides the politics and

decides who gets to play and decides the

regulations ultimately ultimately

any regulation precondition it's

it's effect

okay

thank you very much

you're muted if you're speaking yes or

only one point we left I think for

that's why I want to at what point to

our debate she came we ignorant I think

we we ignored the events of chicane for

instance 30 years ago I think in Europe

marcelia martial there was a

championship match between marcelia and

Milam I remember

and after after it do you remember what

is

I have no idea what you're talking about

[Laughter]

[Music]

Champions League champions league Europe

in Europe and

at the end of 90s there was another or

or beginning of the 2000 year I think

there was another chicane event in Italy

and Juventus Juventus maybe you remember

Juventus because Juventus was defeated

what is

a chicane event

cheating she came about cheating ah

cheating yes okay okay okay yes yes

and I I remember there was a relation

between

government Government

powers and and sports team football

teams in Italy and there was there were

many discussions about it in Italy and

general General Europe I remember I I

want I want to add this this point

because I think this is related to

politics and money

so cheating in sports

yes I don't know I think it's right on

the edge of what we're talking about

today it's like bribery and sports like

Garcia it was I was saying earlier I

feel like that's a whole another debate

you know

um but yes thank you so much for sharing

George uh we're gonna stop here I think

we've kind of gone around a lot now I'm

gonna end the meeting I'm gonna end the

stream sorry

um on uh on YouTube bye bye guys uh and

the stream yes and