Gail Vaz Oxlade: Why she quit TV, Financial Literacy, MyMoneyMyChoices.com & More

all right what is up everybody I am on

with Gayle Pru Gayle bass Oxley the

Gayle stirrer okay we're going to have a

chat open open chat about muddy personal

finance life whatever comes up I wanted

to catch up with Gayle to see what she's

been up to and talk about some of the

projects that she's working on the stuff

that's really blowing back her hair get

some opinions on financial literacy and

money in general and I actually have a

few questions for you on my Facebook

page as some of my audience asked

because I mentioned that I was going to

be having to chat with you today so um

let's talk about Financial Literacy

Month in Canada like asking me this

question cuz you saw me go on the

internet last night and on Twitter and

do it oh yeah and the last time we

talked that was what we talked about

pretty much for the whole time was

financial literacy week at that time um

anyway I've got a few opinions about it

what it like this is Financial Literacy

Month in Canada you know the

government's you know put this

conference together I did a little bit

of googling to see what would come up

when I typed in those keywords and just

to kind of set the tone I found a page

that came up on number one result which

was a Facebook page and taking us how

many likes it's got how many people

actually give a damn about financial

literacy month on Facebook the number

two traffic website in Canada swell 662

600 650 people give a damn about it so

the thing is is that the reason why

nobody cares about it is that we've been

listening to people go bla bla bla bla

bla bla

for so long and nothing has happened

Richard nothing has happened

they shut Commission's they said people

across the country they're still doing

it but nobody is actually putting a plan

in place that people can see as a

concrete road map to get them to where

they need to be and the thing is that

it's all very well and good

deal with the knowledge aspect of

financial literacy but financial

literacy isn't just about knowing

financial literacy is actually more

about doing cuz do I really have to tell

you that you should not be carrying a

balance on your credit card

do I really have to say you have to save

some money or do people already know

that and it just got frickin doing it

yeah you know what um I was thinking

this morning that as as I was driving in

because I knew that we're gonna hop on

this call I was thinking we could start

and end this call with one piece of

advice as simple as spend less than what

you earn yes

save money every month and that's it

then you're good now therefore there are

four there are four others to march up

there's then listen you are safe

something if you have that get it paid

off yeah and mitigate your risks okay

let's talk about mitigating your risks

sure because what happens is a lot of

people are doing almost everything right

you know they've got some savings to the

side and there may be participating

their company pension plan they're

living on their income they're not

carrying any credit card debt and then

they use their job and they're screwed

right because what are they going to do

now they're going to tap their

retirement savings now yeah because it's

wiped that out they're gonna get sick it

gets sick for three or four months

that's all it takes and they're white

and that's me when I scream in EHR is do

you need an emergency fund no alignment

right it doesn't count and red Cardinals

down Arthur huh ah and you need to have

some of the right kind of insurance in

place just in case I see a lot of tremor

yeah people like to think of insurance

as some sort of ploy to rob you of your

money okay okay and I think to myself

okay and go teacher but then don't whine

when your life falls down around your

ears and you don't have any money to

keep your roof over your minute what do

you think about insurance that's offered

on like credit card insurance just

haha go talking about that because I

have an opinion on that too

yeah first of all if you buy creditor

insurance mortgage life insurance you're

not actually buying insurance you're

buying the idea of insurance because the

reality is is that none of those plans

are approved until you make a claim and

so you may have been paying premiums for

a few months or a few years or a lot of

years

I'll need to put a claiming to find out

that oh no you can't make a claim on

this because you had a pre-existing

condition so you know not only that but

it's 2 to 3 times more expensive than

buying term insurance and so why do

financial institutions get away with

selling this product and why does our

financial literacy commissioner think

that it's ok to rest financially

strictly in the hands of someone who's

so really just from you yeah well

they've got a vested interest in selling

you those products you know they've run

out of stuff to sell so they go I get

notices you know a few times a year from

you know the banks that I deal with and

they're always are offering some new

invented product because they're

probably figuring out some way to return

more value to shareholders and the best

one that came up recently was they were

offering me insurance on my line of

credit which was zero by the way and has

been zero forever but they wanted me to

take on his policy for I don't know it

was like twelve bucks a month and the

first thing that I started doing when I

get stuff like that is I look at the

fine print because you know that's where

the details are at and one of the things

that it said was oh yeah we'll pay it

out provided that your average balance

carry none of your on your line of

credit is within 90% of what has been

for the last I think 24 months so let's

take a scenario here our house I have a

job I need to put a new roof on my house

and you know roof tiles costs I don't

know

nine thousand dollars do my roof all of

a sudden my line of credit balance has

gone up by nine thousand dollars during

that term three months later I lose my

job

and I want to make a claim to you know

carry on the payments I think they cover

me

yep no exactly so this is the thing is

that people first of all they don't want

to read the fine print because we have

grown up as a society getting

notifications on almost every webpage we

go to saying read this then say accept

no you just want to get to what you're

going to you don't really care okay

please see accept and people have come

to see fine print that comes with

financial products in much the same way

to say crap cuz there's nothing you can

do about you know if you want it you

have to say yes yeah and all it is is

twelve bucks here eight dollars there

thirteen dollars there eighteen dollars

here it just adds up in it and you think

you're covered but you're really hardly

ever covered for anything so one of the

things that's part of the my money my

choices program is to find ways to

reduce what you're spending and I'm not

asking people to reduce a lot by a lot I

say you know by the time you get to

level ten

you're supposed to decrease your debt I

have to decrease it at my five percent

decrease your spending by point five

percent okay

and so in each level where you have to

decrease your spending a little bit more

then what you're doing is you're going

back and looking at where your money is

going and pretty so maybe you decide

that the magazine subscriptions you pass

of the last three years of the magazine

just piled up for the products not much

to you

or maybe you decided that having premium

cable since you never watch Keating

anyway it's kind of a wasted but or

maybe you decide that that she's a

papaya on yourself on was great ride

you're on the road working but now that

you're no longer on the road it's not a

different job you should

ah just we look at what who's oak I have

it every single month and fix it I'm

gonna put you in the hot seat right now

and tell me what you've cut from your

monthly expenses in the last year that's

made a debt that's made a difference uh

I don't have to cut anything Richard

because I have enough money I'm gonna go

to my cash flow to look at that hold on

cuz I have a cash flow budget my

property taxes and electricity and heat

all went up so did my host insurance oh

I know what I got kind of kids they move

regimented right so my son is keeping

this year off to supposedly work he

selected any companies to supposedly

work and then he's going to go to school

in September so his allowance went away

and my daughter moved to the city so oh

I can't wait excellent

oh yeah and I'll share a little you know

tidbit that I did I I cut my cable about

a year and a half ago and I haven't

missed it I do not have cable

I have internet service to my house I

can watch Netflix there's all kinds of

streaming stuff that's available on the

internet you know there's great content

on youtube if you want to learn

something and I haven't missed it you

know the thing that really pissed me off

about cable is I was paying to receive

stuff on my TV and then in an hour show

I would get twenty minutes of valuable

content the rest of it was marketers try

to prey on my weaknesses to sell me crap

well interestingly enough when Alex went

to universities this was five years ago

I cut the cable almost immediately and

it all came about because my box broke

and when I called them up and said my

box broken and you know the market I was

pickable accepted all this month ago

and they said okay but that's a $20

charge

you're gonna charge me $20 who reads my

Center dollar-a-month service and they

sell those are the rules and I said if

in credit I don't need it anymore and I

just save me an exit sure oh but the

reality is that I don't watch television

when your shoulder I want to watch her

on anyway I did that yeah right so I

know by my TV this stuff shows I

actually wonder why I buy them on iTunes

screening them from an applicator i

watching my necklace done problem solved

all right I want to talk a little bit

more about this Financial Literacy Month

thing um I was I was looking at the

government page yeah at who was you know

going to be there who the sponsors are

and I don't think we need to talk about

the sponsors because anybody can find

out who they are you know learn more

about that I didn't recognize anybody's

face with the exception of Preet

Banerjee on that list of influencers in

that area and I actually did a search on

Twitter with the hashtag Finance lit

conf yeah and I was really disappointed

in the people that were at the

conference the stuff they were talking

about you for me like you know here's a

picture of our bankruptcy booth come

visit it

I don't care do ants do people

struggling with money can't like why

wasn't somebody like you they're

headlining the event I mean I think when

people think about literacy when it

comes to money they're gonna think about

the stuff that you've talked about and

written about in your books right what

your thoughts unfortunately I say things

that are very controversial when it

comes to all those sponsors that they

have yeah you're not very cozy well when

I stand on the stage and I say banks are

money-making corporations the people

behind the counter are sales people and

they lie all the corporate sponsors that

are financial institutions wanted run

screaming from the room right for a

couple of years I was a BC Canada which

is EBC calendar literacy I was there

fine

New Jersey spokesperson and I retired

from the job because everywhere I went

the TD Bank call would mean you had

people in the room to make sure I didn't

see anything that has to gaited because

they were a sponsor on ABC Toyota well

I'm sorry but I'm going to tell the

truth and the fact is that you you own

handed things to clients and Reliance

need to learn to spell them to

themselves and they don't have my

thankful we also don't know half my

understanding of what you're really

mmm-hmm

it's funny because you look at the

sponsor list and the sponsorship

opportunities a platinum sponsors

$35,000 so they're not going to want

somebody on stage saying financial

institutions are going to sell you crap

that you don't need that's right makes

sense

alright um let's move on I want to talk

about my money my choices so what's

really blowing your hair back these days

I mean you got actually you know what

before we do that why did you get out of

TV I left television because we came to

a crossroads with the broadcaster where

for years or years and years I fought to

keep the authenticity in the show I

fought to keep the reality and reality

team and I refused to create the story

was always follow the story so for

example there was they the brunching

company called me up in a panic because

we had given someone a challenge and

they refused to do the challenge and I

said did it get anything they want you

to challenge on camera and they said yes

and they said then we don't have a

problem that's actually a pushback

what's real Terry that they made so long

absolutely but their approach problem is

not absolute panic because then we won't

have anything check out on and it was

always try clear carbonated everything

helps to do check

okay and people call it a horse and

worse and what unfortunately the paper

that I had worked with your early years

of a relatively poor or left leaving

that stuff that tends to float to rise

to the top and be for the better Louis

have you read with Jessica Richard I

swear when I told my executives at my

broadcast era that I was doing a TED

talk they looked at me like assume it

what did that mean you can only take so

much stupid okay well when they started

interfering with the show in significant

ways that I could no longer control I

are intelligent like we're just like

wait I'm something else on television as

I as I've had any discipline contractor

if I work on television or else I will

be tweaking my contract I can retire

what good for you

all right so let's talk about what's

really blowing your hair back these days

and you're excited about your doing my

money my choices why did you why did you

set it up what's it all about

okay so my money my choices is a website

my money my tracers calm that has a road

map on it with a series of levels that

you can complete them as you complete

each level you build the infrastructure

for a strong financial life so in level

one you have to do the most work it's

the hardest level okay and if you can

get to level one find the rest of its

crew breeze but you have to have some

tenacity and some gumption to get

through level one so how did you are

spending analysis you have to make a

budget you have to do a debt repayment

plan and you have to make your first

never escape and those things requires

our environments and effort and so on

intersection that lots of people don't

want to do if I know what I'm spending

on

then I have to agree how the fact that

it's too much so I don't want to know

but if you are different entity control

this is where you start and you know

through the various levels you are taken

from very very basics of Kashmir

management right through your current

estate planning you all the pieces that

need to be in place you have to have

some financial foundation is it an

online course with a graduation like

what are the components of it like is

there an end goal well well multum

itleave when you get to the end we don't

get refers well there's no race hey this

is our life process being financial of

selfless come something you do this week

renessa life so wait waiting get to the

final level is level 23 you will be

making your master amar speak

contributions he FST contributions

eliminated eliminated all your consumer

debt you'll be using very credit card

and PR balance therefore never send a

monkey or mortgage free will in limited

to your student deck and you I built on

all my registered investment portfolio

so so you know in other words you you

are a rock solid but but not the

achievement of level 23 that's important

it's being in the ropes xx important

because for instance that first met

Freud statement they could do it level

more we will include every six months

and in reviewed every six months three

point kids education work Rock Redis

because there is no motive reaching in

the other not everybody can you know you

know yet all together all right

37 so you know what are you going to do

is we want to be underpowered if you

want to be working towards a goal got it

and how long does it take the average

person to achieve level 23 I had no idea

I expect Forster goodnight

he took me on tour I would benefit no

fifty okay to get there got it and is

there a cost for is it free like how

does it work it's free free and they

would find it at my money my choice is

dot-com no the thing he has that what

what this is is a road map it's what you

have to do it's not how you do it but

there are resources mentioned some of

them are some of them and then I can

have a scheduled stop it doesn't have

agenda got it got it alright um I want

to hop onto a question here actually I

got a couple questions for you because I

put this in front of my audience on our

Facebook page a total that freedom to

see if they had any questions for today

and one came up that was interesting it

said why does the Canadian government

continue to allow places like Money Mart

to exist

I know I know of men who cash their

checks instead of paying child support

payments people avoid paying debt and

I've even heard of money laundering

through these institutions she you know

she goes on for a bit but you get the

general idea like I'm not a fan of

payday loan companies I've never used

them I like if you're borrowing against

your paycheck that's like a sign

basically to say I need help it's

something that has to stop it's that's

that's really digging yourself in a

deeper hole but talk to me about that

what your thoughts

well the fact that she was asked my

question

that's my Kavitha she wants to have a

conversation to the fact that she's

asked the question why does our

government and load these organizations

to exist I don't have the right answer

for that because I am a pole I am a pole

that they exist our use read laws

indicate that they shouldn't be able to

get away our charging between 700 and

1,000 or second you add in all the fees

and yet didn't I pull back because I

mean they they have an advertising LC

array of I think twenty three and a half

percent on the websites now right okay

but then they add in all the fees do you

have to add in all the fees so you know

it's check cash easy and uh you have to

put an application fee in when I did all

the fees explore render got it got it

yeah so a big piece of advice stay away

from payday loans if you're if you're

borrowing against your paycheck that's

that's nothing but a path to deep

trouble well and we don't want people

talk about things like child support or

circumvented by using PD companies you

know nothing morally reprehensible the

man would have a wait together to get

over child support yeah well if they're

going to legislate these these companies

there should be a it should be

prohibited that if you're that if you're

on the child support role and you've got

those obligations you're not allowed to

use the services it they should not be

allowed to cash checks for deadbeat dads

I mean you know it's it's a

straightforward as I it's even worse

than that they're not Emma yeah if

they're not a member of the check

cashing Association of Canada for all

intents and purposes which means that if

I write a check to you today for

services rendered and then find out you

gypped me and I canceled that check stop

payment on that check you

you can still take it to a Money Mart

and cash it they will cash it and then

they will sue me for the money and they

will win interest there a debate mcquigg

interesting o Canada we stand on guard I

have another question for you okay

people in credit card debt they tend to

procrastinate and I'm going to use an

example with my own company itself

because people go online they look for

help they find us they'll fill out a

form that says this is their name and

phone number we'll call them and they'll

say yeah I've got debt I need a solution

to it we talked to him about the

solution and they've got let's say

$40,000 in debt today the way to delete

55 thousand before they got you back

well here's the thing you know we offer

the solution we you know we presented to

them we answer their questions we might

spend an hour - on the phone walking

through you know different scenarios and

how it will work and then they sit on it

they don't do anything they don't budge

and then three here's where it gets

better now three or four years later

because you know I've been a business

for ten years now I've got a database

three or four years later we get another

enquiry from the exact same person same

name some email address and phone number

and on the drop down where it says how

much debt do you have it's now $80,000

why do you think people procrastinate on

something as important as personal

finance like this is this is probably

one of the most important things people

need to get in life is how to manage

money nevermind algebra or you know on a

balance of probabilities if I'm in that

room over there across the road how many

people will be between the ages of 18

and 24 and of an ethnic descent from

Africa why like why is it that there

isn't enough emphasis from us as a

society us as people I mean you talk to

a lot of people way more than I have

ever so I want to get your insight on

this but why do people procrastinate on

debt

okay so when you look at the behavioral

finance field and you look at just whole

whack we are you realize that there are

things driving our behavior that have

nothing to do with reased and whatsoever

okay the number one reason people will

not do a spending analysis is they don't

want to change their behavior so if I do

this thing Gail's telling me about is

spending analysis thing and I find out

that I am wasting well 12 percent of my

income on a rubbish a my repairs to stop

doing that generally the answer is no I

want to keep doing what I've always

thought I just want a different outcome

I want to keep doing what I've always

done and I want the debt to go away by

magic hold on a sec I have a magic wand

here somewhere let me get it yeah well

you know like like it's it it just stars

me I mean it frustrates me as an

entrepreneur to see these people that

that carry this credit card debt that

don't want it like it's like you're on

this merry go around going round around

in circles going nowhere

well the definition of insanity is doing

the same freaking thing over and over

again expecting a different result and

they keep you know oh well I'll just pay

this or maybe I can pay that or I'll

take a cash advance paid over here and

you know I'll see if I can win the

lottery in five years I don't know what

the thinking is sometimes but they just

procrastinate and there's got to be

something missing I mean I don't know if

it see an element of humanity if it's

something in the schooling system with

finet like real financial literacy like

here's how money works guys yes well the

thing is is that you can't put it into

schools because there's nowhere to put

it into the high school curricula

there's one spot depending on the

province you're in and it's in you could

replace great 10 careers with a

financial interest of course but nowhere

else can you put it because nowhere else

will you give up a required subject in

order to get into the curriculum because

kids string it so they get to take a

lots of different things right so that's

the first thing so all those people are

saying let's put it in the

and all those skills that are saying

they're putting it into the curriculum

all they have to do is mention the word

money in a line and they think they've

address the financial electricity issue

okay so we make this maths own as some

that includes dollars and cents and look

with put financial literacy into the

curriculum I swear that's what they're

doing okay it's not a real learning okay

so that's the first thing the second

thing is is that we have to come to an

understanding that how we behave it was

largely influenced by what we hold is

important so if what we hold important

is keeping up with the hospice that

you'll see on television then we will go

into debt to renovate our houses so the

winner friends and family come over they

all go you are because they can see the

marble and granite and they can't and

the debt isn't that what drives the

economy though in Canada well that's

what they would have us believe but the

fingers and I don't actually keep this

room I think that if what we're doing is

driving the economy on the backs of

individuals who are sacrificing their

own financial pictures that eventually

that has to combine either it's running

in the ass because what are we gonna do

for all those retiring comedian I mean I

am highest tier year of births in the

river generation I think I got to buy I

am 55 years old up worry what are they

gonna do when my cohort gets to

subscribe has repaid off their mortgages

have a thinkin on lines of credit and

credit card debt and don't have enough

in retirement CDs at one point already

but this is already can you in any rule

this is not that far friction okay okay

what then does not ricotta me do I think

we're heading for a bit of a train wreck

you know I'll be honest with you we've

got um we've got a huge demographic in

our database and our average clients 44

years old

okay and they have about 37 thousand

dollars in credit card debt

I think it's 4.1 cards last time I

checked

so people people in your boomer age that

are going to be retiring they're

carrying the debt I think they feel a

moral obligation to the credit card

companies I think they feel like they

have a right to earn 20% interest or

28.8% interest or whatever it is that

they're paying because they gave me the

credit card and I bought this stuff and

I should pay it off and off they go but

I think you're right I think we're

probably heading for a bit of a train

wreck in a few years when these people

retire and they leave the workforce

either that or they're going to stay in

and keep working because they haven't

paid off the mortgage and they don't

have retirement savings but it's a bit

of a mess you're right well well then

people will say things to me like well

well the credit card companies wouldn't

give me this much credit if they knew

they were going to have to take a right

Tower bifur of course people are rich

business of making money so you say that

they're missing the business and I say

to them make their money what wasn't it

on that corner you've already paid for

twice in terms of the payment you had

made so if they have to write out the

rest in your ear and they're writing off

there's no real money in there well we

could go on for another half hour so on

this um any last closing points you know

you know nobody is really in responsible

or get in the can opener out in opening

of your skull or pouring what you need

to note and financially literate that is

really her job and the resources exist I

know cuz I ruin a lot of them okay so

you can't tell me you don't know how to

get out of debt if you have read

different forever cuz it tells you how

to do it it tells you how to make a

budget tell you why you have to set

goals and how important are if you

aren't going to do the things that they

naturally take you to where you say you

say you want to be and just are you

whining about okay that's not we're

there

and saying we are worried and pressure

because you're not you're not really

prepared putting in the effort you are

you aren't prepared here to the airport

in my money my choice comm get on the

journey and really girl got one because

everything is laid out there for you

love it

done that's it hey Gail has spoken thank

you very much we'll talk to you next

time

okay okay bye