Bob Costas on the collision of politics and sports in America

the intersection of politics and

American sports and the risks and

rewards of playing during a pandemic

we'll have an in-depth one-on-one

interview with the legendary

sportscaster Bob Costas the man who

knows his stuff and speaks his mind he's

in the Hall of Fame he's an Emmy Award

winner he's also been the prime host of

11 Olympics he joins us from California

hi Bob let's get right into us do you

ever remember a time in history when

sports and politics has been so

intertwined no not as pervasively of

course Muhammad Ali was a singular

figure of global influence and the 1960s

as we both remember were a very very

contentious period of time yet Tommie

Smith and John Carlos with the raised

fists salute at the 1968 Olympics in

Mexico City a lot of young athletes

protested the war in Vietnam some were

part of the counterculture Bill Walton

an extremely likable man nonetheless had

some countercultural

ideas which many agreed with so that was

a period of time when it was out there

but I don't think numerically there were

as many athletes who had a political

bent as seem to have today let's get to

some of the instances I know you were

Ford for a long time I was - what do you

make them Washington finally dropping

the Redskins well as I said a week ago

they're not doing it because they saw

the light they're doing it because

they're feeling the heat Daniel Snyder

the owner had been adamant I'll never

change the name never and you can put it

in capital letters but now when FedEx

where they play is named FedEx Field

FedEx says we don't want any part of it

if you continue with that name Nike

Pepsi others hundreds of millions of

dollars involved there along with the

social pressure that's been building

since the death of George Floyd the

murder really of George Floyd that's the

reason they did it not because they

actually changed their point of view

we're gonna see a lot more teams doing

it

I think you got to go on a case-by-case

basis Larry as I said on NBC and a half

time sa seven years ago I am NOT a fan

and still not of political correctness

run amok or extreme identity politics we

got to be careful about that and cancel

culture you got to look at each thing on

a case-by-case basis but at any time

could have been 30 years ago if you

thought about the Redskins for five

minutes you could see how that was

distinct from Chiefs Braves Warriors I

understand if some Native Americans and

others might be upset with the symbols

and rituals Chiefs Braves Warriors

whatever it might be but by definition

those names are not insults they could

if properly presented be not much

different than Cowboys or Vikings or

Patriots but Redskins every dictionary

defines Redskins everyone as a slur an

insult derogatory pejorative and there

are no such definitions connected to

other names that we generally associate

with Native Americans and and if you

just think about it this way any other

ethnic group any other ethnic group

what's the equivalent of Redskins have

applied to any other ethnic group and

you can see how ridiculous it is that

this name has lasted as long as it has

all right moving on there is the

National Football League shift on taking

the knee gonna see a lot of it if they

play this year yeah I think you are and

I think that a lot of players black and

white many of whom agree with the idea

but some may feel pressured into doing

it because they don't want to be labeled

as insensitive or worse yet racist

somehow so we're into an area where

there's no room for thoughtful

disagreement there are people who could

say look I am totally in sympathy with

the issue that Colin Kaepernick first

tried to bring to attention and now has

has grown in terms of people's interest

in that through the black lives matter

movement that we are badly in need of

the reform of policing and of criminal

justice reform but some individual black

or white might say the

national anthem is not the place that I

feel most comfortable making those

points and most comfortable protesting

but some of those people are going to

get subsumed in the general tone there's

not going to be much room for

disagreement anymore or even four shades

of difference I Kapernick assigned a big

deal with Disney with Disney for

production and films and the like you

think we'll see them quarterback again I

think it's in the league's best interest

especially since they're now all in it

seems in terms of reversing their

position and apologizing we the National

Football League believe etc etc etc it

almost as if they had taken dictation

from the black lives matter movement I

don't have a problem with that but since

they have reversed field I think that

some team has to give him a tryout but

as you and I know Larry we've been

following sports all our lives the shelf

life of an athlete is short he's been

out for three years it has rarely

happened that someone has been away from

top-level competitive sports for that

long

Ali did it but even he great as he was

was a different fighter when he came

back still great but not as great and

not in the same way so Kaepernick

deserves a chance maybe some team like

Seattle Pete Carroll their coach appears

to be a progressive guy he deserves a

chance for a legitimate tryout and if he

doesn't make it

those who support Kaepernick have to be

convinced that he didn't make it after

being given a full complete and fair

chance and if he does make it great i

Patrick mahomes 24 years old signs a

10-year contract over a billion of a

half a billion dollars well we could put

it this way as anybody worth that or as

Jackie Gleason used to say if someone's

willing to pay it you're worth it that's

right and if anybody's gonna get it you

think about it with Patrick mahomes he's

24 years old he's one of the most

exciting players in the league he took

his team to a Super Bowl championship

and one sport even

whatever impact and ripple effects

they'll be from kovat 19 the one sport

that seems to be bulletproof when it

comes to their revenues and popularities

is the national football league and each

team you don't have as much difference

if you do in other sports market to

market because the primary source of

revenue is the gigantic national

television contract which every team

fears in equally so Kansas City gets as

much of that and so does Green Bay as

teams in New York or Chicago or Los

Angeles so they have a certain kind of

revenue security that makes this kind of

investment practical for them and I'm

sure while I haven't read the contract

I'm sure that there are outs for

settlements should be sustained a

career-ending injury halfway through

were you surprised that NASCAR's

decision to ban the Confederate flag

knows it in Dixie yeah they know it's

gonna alienate part of their fan base

Larry but in this atmosphere I wasn't

surprised and any fair-minded person

should have realized a long time ago

that you just don't want to be

associated with the Confederate flag now

let me make this point I know that there

are lots of people we'd be naive to

think that many of those who display the

Confederate flag I have no problem with

it

aren't at least subliminal racist or

passive racists but there are some

people who would declare truthfully in

their own minds I'm not a racist

I want a society that is fair and just

but the Confederate flag to me means

blah blah blah means my favorite college

football team it means other aspects of

of southern culture and but even if

that's true that's what it means to you

but think of what it indisputably means

to not just african-americans but the

people with a social conference can't

conscience rather it's associated with a

traitorous movement with people who took

up arms against their country and its

associated with slavery

forget about systemic racism for a

moment or other aspects of racism what

could be more direct

it is the symbol

for many of us of slavery and that

consideration if you're a fair-minded

person even somebody who has benign

intentions and doesn't and thinks of the

Confederate flag as that this is what I

see when I go to NASCAR or when I go to

my Saturday afternoon football game if

they're a decent person and they think

for a moment the consideration on the

one hand is so much more important than

whatever you it is you think it

represents to you that you got to stand

down on it it has no place in our

country except as a piece of history to

be talked about an examine and what do

you make of NBA players putting signs on

their uniforms like black black lives

matter I guess as a one-off in this

unusual unique situation when they're in

the bubble and a huge percentage of the

players in the league are African

American and many of them have expressed

interest in being involved in a social

justice movement I guess as a one-off

it's okay but just think about the

logical extension here at some point

somebody's gonna say hey I have

different views and why can't I put

whatever the view why can't I put Magga

2020 there you and I might not like it

but what's the justification for saying

no oh there are only certain forms of

expression we agree with and others we

won't allow I think that's a slippery

slope for a league to find itself on if

they want to do it for the six weeks or

so it's going to take them to finish out

this season in the bubble okay but I

don't think it makes much sense going

forward what in this this this past

moment shows how different times we live

in Bob who'da thought we've been

discussing these things five years ago

yeah and you know when people you heard

it I've heard it stick to sports now I

do not believe that politics or social

issues should be so pervasive that they

get in the way of people's enjoyment of

the game during the game unless

something comes up that you have to note

during the game you should just talk

about the game people want it as a

diversion as a pleasure

and obviously sports encompasses people

across the

spectrum of viewpoints and demographics

and everything else but the idea that

you can't talk about these issues when

they intersect with sports on a pregame

show a halftime show like that which was

always when I addressed at halftime

pregame never during a game itself or in

moments like this they're talking about

it on CNN and other places the idea that

stick to sports makes any sense those

people must never have heard of Jack

Johnson from Jackie Robinson or a Billie

Jean King or of Arthur Ashe or Muhammad

Ali or Tommie Smith and John John Carlos

they have no knowledge of history and

here's the part that's hypocritical

Larry what they really mean when they

say that is stick to sports unless

you're saying something I agree with

because Fox for example puts on sports

figures all the time who have

conservative views than aligned with

theirs and entertainment figures who

have conservative views that align with

theirs and that's fine they have every

right to do so but then don't turn

around and tell the bran James to shut

up and dribble come on be consistent