PREP Talks Episode 005 - Carl Valle: An Education On Sport Technology

in episode 5 we have the pleasure of

sitting down with carl vale

and talking about technology and how

education

around technology is probably not as

robust as it could be

and this goes for professionals working

in sporting environments looking for

technology to help them

as well as the people from the

technology companies

looking to get their technologies out to

professionals

and if technology is treated like a tool

it's not just about getting the best

tools

it's also about learning how to use

those tools and i think that's where the

deficit lies these days

is the knowledge around how to make the

best choices around your technology

as well as how to implement the

technology

and make it a sustainable part of your

practice so i think you'll get some

really interesting takeaways

from carl's opinions on technology and

how he uses it

in his everyday practice as a consultant

and professional

[Music]

hey carl good to have you on i just

wanted to uh

you know have somebody talk about

technology

and how it relates to the education that

people are going through right now

whether they're in

a sport related field rehabilitation and

how they're using technology because

as i see it there really isn't a lot of

education around

how to not only choose your technology

but then how to integrate it into your

system

and and how to make sure that it's

chosen in a way that it's sustainable

and that it actually is you know

providing results for you and and

making you a better practitioner so i

think one of the reasons

that i wanted to jump on this call is i

know that you're involved in

helping people choose the right

technology and vetting different

technologies that's that's what you

spend most of your day doing

so right off the bat what are some of

the first things that you

you really have to kind of target in

terms of working with somebody and

saying okay

why are you buying this technology what

you know what is it going to do for you

and can i help you pick something a

little more appropriate for your

situation

what are those conversations like yeah

the conversations

are they're getting more complex more

extensive

and uh the definitions of

what technology really is is confusing

because

if you look at technology and say use

the word tool

or equipment it becomes very nebulous

so with when i hear teams saying well we

want to have the best technology i

always say do you want to have the right

technology

because technology is only as strong as

its weakest link

and if you have a organization that

feels that the

management and ownership is pushing a

certain technology for an agenda

they're going to have a it's going to

self sabotage so the conversations of

acquiring technology

integrating technology budgeting for

technology

uh vetting the right technology so that

you know what's useful

sometimes things are are lacking a

little bit

of accuracy but they're very uh

practical because they're reliable

so the discussions are getting more and

more about how we can

use technology to make our jobs easier

it used to be well

what's the new fresh data what's the the

new oil

um used to be player tracking it used to

be some sort of medical data

now it's becoming more of like okay how

can we make the user experience better

i mean i remember years ago when we

started using zoom

you know that was a major milestone

because video conferencing was

less accessible was very complicated

sometimes it was expensive

so i think technology the definition is

going to change

because as we get into artificial

intelligence more and more

sensors it's going to be more of a of a

challenge

rather than a resource yeah because i i

i would

you know we talk about equipment versus

technology and i i'm sure there's some

strength coaches out there that think a

squat rack is technology which

it could be you know characterized as to

some degree and some of the squat rocks

they have nowadays can measure stuff and

have variable resistance and all these

fancy things but at what point

do you you know sit people down and say

look

this is just too much for you this is

just you know i know

what you're trying to do with this

purchase and you're trying to make it

look like

you're ahead of the game you know or

ahead of the curve

but at the same time how is this going

to be used like

are you really going to benefit from

this is you know could you benefit more

from

maybe um you know knowledge technology

you know in terms of like

getting your staff up to speed on how to

you know do different things right

um do you have those discussions a lot

and where their investments yeah

yeah so there's principles that i have

is

uh you know most people think about when

they look at a technology budget for

example

you know they have to start thinking the

same principles of regular equipment do

you have a sustainability solution

repairing um education is a big part of

it are you putting a dollar for every

dollar you put in do you put 10 cents

into

at least education to not only make sure

you can use it properly but

you're up to date with the purpose

behind the technology

so a great example is a lot of the foot

sensors that we're seeing out there

everyone's wanting to buy

a lot of this imu wearables

and i asked i said are you familiar with

the anatomy and clinical understanding

of the foot and ankle

and a lot of the strength coaches that

are buying the stuff they want the data

to make sure that their value increases

but they're not able to provide the

value back

so you know like for example strength

conditioning

a lot of people are interested in

barbell technology

whether it be resistance whether it be

measurement measurements such as a bar

speed and the barbell path but

i don't see better technique on the

clean and snatch than i did 10 years ago

in fact i see

a decrease in coaching a decrease

in technique and a lot of that is

because the

modern strength coach has to be a sports

scientist so they're basically diluting

their capabilities because you're only

you're only one person and while i

believe that there is career growth

there's only so much you can do as an

individual so those are some

conversations that i'm having which is

are you growing your staff because

you're not growing your hours if you're

putting in dark to dark hours of 12

hours a day

six days a week technology is actually a

burden

and like sports training you put in a

pound to get announced

technology needs to be the reverse it

should be almost like a magic pouch

where you put in a dollar

and you get three dollars back so uh

there's

great thresholds derek another example

is are the athletes annoyed by it

having great technology sometimes is

used as recruiting

right but then when you're actually in

their training and

you're punching a tablet and the app is

crashing

or you know you do us an all-out sprint

and

the data collection doesn't work or

you're trying to log into the app to do

your wellness questionnaire and it's

kicking you out uh that's not really

helping

so those are the real world things with

technology and it's

not getting better yeah and

we can look to the the super bowl where

we have two teams

where i know one team for sure doesn't

use

gps hasn't used it for a long time and

one of the reasons is the head coach

didn't find any use for it

and then the other team there was a

famous video of

of uh i think it was buddy morris asking

him you know we're in the red here which

you know

and the coach didn't care he didn't care

what was happening with the gps so

you have two successful coaches in the

super bowl now

who haven't adopted that technology and

they're still successful

is that something that should be of

concern to technology companies

no i think it's a concern because

innovation comes with some pain

i think they need to be realistic and

honest about it because

you know like american football is

probably the worst sport to do player

tracking

think about it it's a giant ruler it's

literally measured

on the field the players usually play

one side

a lot of the plays are choreographed

right um and the sport's defined by

you know while it does have overtime

there's a kind of constraints

it's not like baseball where you just

have innings that can keep going

so in terms of player tracking that's a

good point it's like

okay the uh when you have the probably

the best quarterback in the league

you know that's such an impact position

does it really matter of a the amount of

workload

of a uh running back um

especially even in practice because

practices are not

you can't do small sided games and in

american football

it's not like they're playing indoor

arena you know wednesday through

thursday

it's very difficult to add value to

you know minutes and effort even heart

rate i mean

you can get a lot of off of very simple

data

and in order to move the needle you have

to put exponentially more information

that's useful

and unfortunately a lot of the products

are just finding more and more ways to

do the same thing

and it really isn't evolution it's or

innovation it's iteration

so yes there's a long way to go with all

of these

sports technology companies a lot of

them assume that because

you know they have a measurement that

they're going to be valuable

and measuring is the first step

convenience

speed with insight those are the things

that make technology

wonderful but it is a responsibility and

a lot of the design

and a lot of the engineering of these

products are being done by the wrong

people

they don't know what it's like to be an

athlete they don't suffer they don't eat

their own dog food

so if they're not using their own

products to do their job

which i don't think a lot of these

companies are

it's not like oh my god the uh

the vice president of marketing he's out

today his player loads too high

no they really don't use their own

equipment so that's why the perspectives

in hiring former sports scientists or

you know having liaisons and education

and that does some damage control but

it's not really making

the the solution much better

yeah and if we take it from the point of

view of the technology company ceo

and uh you know if you are giving them

advice are you bringing up all these

practical issues around their

use of their technology whether it's a

wearable or whether it's a

some sort of measuring device are you

saying like listen

in order for this to really take off it

has to be easy to use that the players

have to buy in the coaches have to buy

in

and and there's all this soft stuff that

they haven't thought of that you have to

bring up

yeah the biggest complaint i have is

that uh sending people equipment

especially consultants you included

isn't helping one of the biggest

problems i have is a

technology company goes hey we have this

piece of equipment we're going to send

it to you

and uh we want your feedback well i'm

sorry

i need a year because you usually want

to try to think about how can you use

this product over a season

and how does it fit within everything

i'm doing you know

borrowing something or being something

sent out for six weeks

it's very thin the information you're

gonna get you're going to see some

promising ideas

but it doesn't really help create enough

depth and anchoring

so that you can really make an impact so

that's the first thing i would say is

stop with the the the superficial stuff

and really start doing some r d so put

the money into

working with uh either an organization a

few teams

and shut up for about three to six

months

and not try to guide them or check in

just

let them do it and then learn from there

that's something very important

second is um education

be careful uh people are not looking for

webinars anymore

we all have zoom fatigue uh you know

coaches want more immersion

so i think more round tables and and

workshops are probably

uh a better fit than having someone

narrate

a a powerpoint if he can be

you know you know sometimes there's some

conveniences to have

something on demand but education is

because people have been

displaced from coronavirus uh i think

people are looking for something a

little bit more interactive

so start there that's on the second part

and then the last part is remember it's

like to be the team

when a team has to deal with an array of

different responsibilities

you know they think about their product

only a lot of times

people are using multiple systems and

how that integrates

so the integration of technology needs

to be considered

not just hey look at our product it's

the best

it's the best in its class focus on it

we're the top of the totem pole think

about the entire totem pole

and think about how it interacts yeah

that's a good point because

there is this sort of divide between

like hey you can just wear this and

it'll measure everything

and it kind of does it okay or that you

can start compartmentalizing go like i'm

gonna get the sleep monitor

and i'm gonna get the heart rate monitor

and then i'm gonna strap a gps onto me

and then i'm gonna get this other thing

that

measures emg so at what point do you say

i want the best measurement of this

specific technology versus

i just generally want to know so i'll

opt for that do you get into those kind

of

discussions with with clients yeah i

mean one of the biggest things

i'm quote playing with this meaning they

get a sensor

or a piece of technology and they do a

little bit of home

experimentation and and that's fine i

mean the first thing you want to do is

try it yourself

pretend like you're the athlete right or

you're the patient

and experience it then you want to try

it on someone else to see what the

interaction is between yourself

and the athlete or patient and then you

start doing a small group and then maybe

expand to a team or a school

so that's a good process the question is

where to start with um the biggest

problem i see

is if you don't have a a great culture i

hate to use the word but if you don't

have

at least some sort of internal

philosophy or structure of how you're

supposed to communicate

then what happens is technology only

makes the problem worse

so like for example if you're going to

work with a soft tissue therapist

in a pro team or a really good college a

lot of them have

body workers or massage therapists or

soft tissue

therapy or whatever if you can't do a

wellness questionnaire

how are you going to organize you know

all this information on treatments

same thing with uh physical therapy or

athletic trainers

you have to have a platform to

communicate that's the first thing

so that you can create a way to collect

information

push out information do that first

communication platform

then you start adding the layers of

technology that are more measurement

but if you can't do that if you have a

problem communicating

then what happens is when you add the

tech it becomes a friction point

or a barrier rather than a way to

improve outcomes reduce headaches so if

technology is not embedded

and it doesn't help you and it becomes a

responsibility

then it better be providing so much

information that

you are transforming the game like

where's the 400

hitters where the you know right where

are all these uh

you know uh where's the evolution in

baseball you know

um i see some players are getting better

but we don't see anything that is

transformative

with the technology it's usually just

incrementally adding details

which is nice but the quality of a

of a tv going from 4 to 8k

isn't going to make sure i mean there's

a point where the eye isn't going to

find much more value

so that's why i think i'm really

concerned about when

everyone comes together everyone has

little agendas that they have

in terms of what technology should do

for them when it should be

athlete-centric and saying are we doing

what's ethically right

examples concussions we're seeing a drop

in concussion preparation with uh for

example neck

training when coveted testing becomes

more of an importance

what's going to drop other testing so

now we're seeing people that are

clearly not doing their job on neck

strength

and to reduce concussions because

they're spending their time doing

swabbing of the mouth so i'm not saying

that because of covid it's going to

increase the amount of concussions

but it's really difficult to have a

sustainable solution when you don't have

a clear plan including like for example

you mentioned sleep

okay what happens if you have bad sleep

um one example i've been seeing is

people moving away from wearables for

sleep

not to say that that's a good solution

but when you start measuring

the bed it makes it a lot easier

especially with sports that are

like american football where you spend

most of the time at home

that's probably a lot more convenient

than worrying about

for example taking off a ring when

you're supposed to be lifting

you know and then you lose the ring and

then becomes a

a big problem to replace it so i think

uh what we're seeing now is that the

realities of technology

that aren't as exciting as the white

papers are starting to surface

yeah i guess uh one of the questions or

a bunch of the questions i have for you

is like people want to hear from you

like what technology should i get

like if they are um you know entering a

new position a new job and they're

they have a budget now and i know it's

gonna

you know you're gonna ask the question

well what do you want to measure or

what's important to you

but are there some things that jump off

the page for you in terms of

technologies like if

for instance if we say timing systems

people are always talking about what's

the best timing system and what are some

of the things that you're

looking at when a team comes and asks

you like hey we want to timer athletes

we want to get more data on their speed

and their

you know what are some of the things

that you're addressing in that question

so i think that's a good that's a good

point timing speed kills we all know

that there's a value there

the first thing i'm looking at is okay

uh

what are you doing now because what you

do

now is pretty much the realistic

expectation of trying to improve it

incrementally

if you're not doing anything now the

question is are you trying to get

something to keep up with the joneses

or do you need something maybe a little

bit more intermediate so that you can

have a

a better appraisal of what's going on

best example is the difference between

continuous laser

which is a laser like a radar gun behind

the athlete

so you can see their continuous speed

and then timing gates to see split

intervals

split intervals i mean it's they're

useful

i believe in them and i use them but

like it's 2021.

you know we can get continuous velocity

because you can do a lot more things

with that

so you know i've pretty much stopped

using

split intervals because i need that

richness

of things such as floating sprints if

max speed is so important

why not the best workouts for max speed

and that could be floating sprints but

to see those little subtleties

of surges and velocity you're not going

to get that from

timing gates and then when you when

you're an athlete and you see all these

tripods out there

looking like a corridor no one wants to

experience that

so they're tight they're running

tightened up and that's why free lap is

is popular because it's a tiny cone it's

barely

noticeable visibly then there's also

people using

like i said uh the the player tracking

equipment

to try to get you know an understanding

of decelerations

um total work to being done by

estimating

through velocity and body weight i mean

those are nice

but how are you using that real time you

know you

post game analysis or post session

analysis

it's usually confirming what you kind of

know

you can tell when someone gets beat in

the football you know pretty clearly

when they don't tackle the athlete and

there's a

touchdown scored so does it really

matter that they went 21.2 miles an hour

or the fact is your defense isn't fast

enough

so i think that's something to be said

um

so yeah timing it's it's timeless

but uh you know what you do with it uh

you know we're seeing a lot of uh

deceleration emphasis right now

some really nice things coming out for

change of direction

step-by-step analysis contact times that

is the future

not hey here's your flying 10. i mean

that's that's great for 1984

but that's not really helpful now when

you can see why they're running fast not

just how fast they run

yeah and just jumping into that piece

there you talked about

you know deceleration and ground contact

times and and like you

touched on before we have people

developing in-shoe technology

to give us data versus the old school

well say it's old school but the force

plate in the lab

in the facility is there room for both

of those

is one still better than the other

what's the practicality

of having people wear insoles or shoes

and pulling the data from those

what has been your experience oh this is

ugly um

how can i say this in a constructive way

so it doesn't sound like

i told you so so that's good that's a

good question you have

uh actually multiple questions legacy

equipment like force plates are still

they're still valid they might be

changing meaning you might getting

you might be getting a more creative way

for example the isometric mid thigh pull

was a a discussion that was uh occurring

in the last couple days

with uh athletes that are you know not

used to using

um straps weight lifting straps if

you've never touched a bar

right let's say you're a young athlete

16 and

you haven't done any formal weight

training an isometric methypole isn't a

good idea

because there's a familiarization and a

learning you know effect that you have

to do and it takes

multiple reps in multiple sessions to

really tease out that information

second is in-shoe technology you know

let's be careful

the first thing that concerns me with

in-shoe technology is

comfort a lot of these products are

invasive they can you know you feel it

in the shoe

it feels like there's a little bit of a

pebble that you're slipping around

that's not really a good user experience

but getting information on the shoe

maybe you don't do it every day maybe

you profile them or you screen them out

so there's ways to use technology

without having those type of problems

yeah and again i'm always thinking like

if you talk about user experience there

is a user experience on the side of the

person collecting the data

and whether it's collecting shorts uh

you know that have sensors in them

collecting yeah

you know the insoles or the shoes and

you know obviously they have the

the gps units that's going to take a lot

of time

effort and resources to compile data

that again we're not sure how it's going

to be used

yeah like a lot of the smart fabrics

first of all they're environmentally a

problem

second they wear out even if you do cold

washes by hands

you know all that salt and you know from

the sweat

is corrosive so like if you're using it

the more likely that the product is

going to break down

and then there's the other practical

side is that okay while it's drying by

hand what if you want to do a second

session

the next day session you got to wait for

it to

be managed and then you know sometimes

the contact areas you still need to use

a tailor

i mean we keep forgetting that their

clothes are still

a very old technology if you will just

maintaining

a waistband and making sure things the

seams are

double stitched so a lot of this stuff

is not easy to

manage the wireless

wearable emg not a fan

if you look at the sampling and the

electrode placement and yeah

here here's something why is sampling

rate important

explain to people why this the sampling

rate is important for a lot of these

wearables

so that's a good point is the sampling

rate allows you to get

more of a richer information of what's

going on because

a lot of these sporting activities are

very ballistic in nature

so if you don't have a high enough

sampling rate you can't have with

confidence knowing what's going on at

what time

so for example when you're sprinting

you're taking

five strides per second well that's a

fast

ballistic activity and if you can't keep

up

then the information what's going on

within each stride is going to be

guesswork so it's really important to

make sure that you know

and this is where sports scientists need

to help out more is to say

hey what can you get out of what we have

and where does it need to be so it's

useful

i'm not just saying well this is not

valid great well what's going to happen

in a year

you know you need to make sure that

there's a community

now the international sports technology

association

is doing that unfortunately the sports

tech companies

are tend to be rogue in

a wild west because there's not

regulation and

it gets messy it's not like the fda is

going to have to look at

like the next sports tracker so

i think with all of this it's important

to understand that this is a

very messy environment in order to make

steps forward we have to have better

standards

of saying okay this is acceptable here

not appropriate there

yeah and just listening to you talk

about all of the

time and effort and and the durability

of some of these wearables and

it makes me think back to some of the

conversations we've had about video

technology

and maybe combining that with artificial

intelligence so that the video

pulls the data that you need so you

don't have to have

you know interns running around

collecting things and uploading and

downloading

so what can we expect i mean you know

basic video technology is is very useful

for ground contact times and

biomechanics and seeing all that

but what can we expect for the future um

for video technology to extract

everything for us

video is nice um the problem with video

is that you know you're running around

with

you know sporting uh apparel

and so a wrinkle or a sleeve

that changes and the artificial

intelligence behind

the video might not be able to really

give an accurate depiction of what's

going on

so an athlete that's running two or

three tenths faster

a 10-4 athlete or even down to a

nine-nine

might be a degree and a half change in

some sort of measurement

and the video might not be able to pick

it up so video is really excellent

for for player tracking for distance and

some velocities

but biomechanics it's still difficult

because

it's all about setting up the cameras

there's a stadium

what happens you go to a practice field

what about a bubble

cameras are useful um i use video

analysis very simple video analysis

but the combination of sensors and

technologies to get

like ground contact time if you're

spending all this time trying to collect

ground contact time manually

very ineffective way to get a

measurement that you can get through

other technologies

video needs to be the the foundation

to displaying a lot of the force and the

you know these other measurements like

kinematic and stride parameters

and i like simple video because it's

very useful

unfortunately because everyone has a

video camera everyone thinks they're a

videographer and it's

usually done prop improperly so just

education on simple videos necessary

second you know i do think that uh

the the future is going to be richer

because remote

coaching has improved because people are

able to broadcast

what you can do with vimeo and gopro is

amazing

you can literally be remote coaching

real time give an athlete

some solutions such as like a head piece

you can talk to them like we're talking

now

simple sound lifts one of the things

that people don't know is that a mic

can really enhance the user experience

without

having a coach to yell you can learn a

lot observe a lot when someone

is uh able to communicate through

a voice but not and they can project it

without yelling

because it keeps creates a calming

effect but it's also

you can absorb so i think those

technologies the simple ones

and polishing those to a mirror on the

apple

are going to be a lot more popular

because sometimes this good coaching

slightly amplified is better than all

this new tech

specifically with a lot of these motion

capture products that

you know it's cool to see one of your

athletes run around like a skeleton

like you know karate kid one when

they're

when the cobra kai is in their skeletons

but

uh it's not really going to help um when

you're trying to coach someone to run

faster

you can learn more but it's not really

impacting as much as we think

there's a cool factor a wow factor

but not a a big impact okay yeah that's

a very good point

is it sexy is it useful can it be both

and then the other part of it is like

you're collecting all this information

and there's different platforms there's

different ways to compile this

and to create data visualizations and

what has been your experience with those

types of products where people are

collecting all this stuff and have a

central

sort of receptacle for it very important

to have an athlete management system

very important to have strength and

conditioning software sets and reps

are much more important than you know

seeing some sort of report

i again if if they're not using player

tracking

you know in in as a coach

do you really think they're going to

look at some sort of pdf that's showing

some sort of uh

scatter plot so i'm not a huge fan of

reporting

i think um reporting is just basically

ornamental bragging

for the the team to show that they're

doing something

but usually very few people make

decisions

off of a lot of these super charts and a

lot of these visualizations

i do think that sometimes infographics

with those data

pieces is a great way to move people to

a paradigm shift but uh you know

i think it's easy to to collect data and

display data and even analyze it

it's really the interventions and what

you do after the interventions to weigh

the impact and strategy of your training

program so again you should have one

but they're just basically incrementally

moving the needle rather than helping us

really

really make a radical change yeah and

i hope we're coming out of this whole

covid uh

uh situation and but has there been some

things that you've learned

during this past year and we're coming

up to almost a year now are there some

things that have emerged or accelerated

uh from a technology point of view that

you think are going to stick with us

and and really endure beyond covid

uh not much i mean you've already seen

this was when everyone going on zoom

you're like what's changed for you um so

video conferencing remote work

is probably going to change a little bit

sometimes

it's okay to to send out a remote

workout

so i think working from home and remote

training

is going to grow but it's still the live

experience is going to be

even more important because people are

deciding when they actually

decide to do something or live somewhere

you know what's that user experience

going to be like

so i don't think much is going to change

i do think that uh

we're going to start seeing a better

access to talent

so i think coaches are going to say hey

we just want to work with the best

people we don't care what continent

they're on

i think we're gonna see a lot more

collaboration that way um

i do think that technology is gonna

basically go through a little bit of a

bubble

because people are gonna start to

realize that it's better to hire a good

practitioner

and hire more people than to uh

you know spend more time using equipment

and facilities that really don't deliver

the goods

i think you're going to see a lot more

flexible and agile

facility design and you know i think

that's we're gonna be

the the changes these uh current

practices that are going on right now

yeah i think we're gonna

uh we're gonna have some stabilization

on where things are

but i think that the big shift is

probably acquiring talent and working

collaboratively

rather than um the new athlete tracking

or the new wearable

yeah no that's a good point just in

terms of people

probably valuing the in-person

experience more and

and and maybe saying hey i'm going to

put away the phone and i'm going to

actually

engage a bit more in the in the session

that i have with you

so that's a really good point unplugging

is going to be the new 2.0

where the anti-technology or the

etiquette of technology i think is going

to catch up

people's attention moving away from

distractions

or that anxiety that you have because

you're getting all this information fed

i mean right now i mean i haven't been

on a video conference call in a long

time

because why would i want to be on a

video conference call trying to get all

that digital eye strain

and excessive concentration when you're

just used to using a phone

um and then screens how many people are

looking at a tiny screen when they could

be looking at

uh you know a large flat screen you know

like i said zoom fatigue is real because

it's usually the device

but how many people binge on netflix

well you're not binging on a

on a smartphone usually usually you're

on your couch and

a large flat screen so there's going to

be some etiquette changes to technology

and it's overdue yeah very good point

how can people follow you carl so that

they can stay on top of some of the

things you're covering in some of the

projects you're doing

easiest thing to do is to sign up for my

newsletter

go to spikesonly.com up

um we're redoing a couple things so that

it can be a little bit more informative

and then always use twitter because

twitter i'm

making sure i'm sharing and retweeting

and giving some opinions on this

and uh you know spikes only on twitter

is my handle

and uh you know always just shoot me a

line and you know

see what i can do to help awesome thanks

for doing this

and hopefully in the in the near future

i can

meet you in person again and we can

share some thoughts because this is this

i am getting a bit of fatigue here

yeah i think uh you know hopefully by

this fall uh

you know the uh changes including the

vaccine will

will improve uh our state of this

pandemic

uh time will tell um but again thanks

for your time as well you've always been

uh cutting edge on your technology i

remember you using

uh kubios uh to get hrv in you know mid

2000's so

uh you know those old days of the polar

it's yeah it's getting harder and harder

as i'm getting older to stay on top of

things but

you know again it's it's all about your

network and learning from others so

thank you for doing that for a lot of

people all right thank you derek and i

appreciate your time as well

take care

[Music]

you