Understanding the African football to drive business growth

quick question why do people care so

much about data we heard it mentioned

early on on day one of wfs Africa and

it's continued as a theme Big Data smart

data open data all sorts of data because

well data is information information can

turn into knowledge and knowledge

ultimately as the saying goes means

power and when you get data about the

exact people that you are trying so

desperately to reach and connect with

and engage it is such a precious

commodity and first party data is huge

in football particularly Sports in

general especially football because

football clubs and federations that's

why they put a lot into their own owned

and operated platforms like their

website or their Ott offering because

they then own that first party data

whereas if you have to go to a Twitter

or a YouTube or an Instagram it's not

yours it can be expensive to try and

acquire it but the most important thing

about data is that word knowledge that I

mentioned before and sometimes that's

not that measurable or specific it's a

tonal thing it can be qualitative rather

than quantitative and sometimes the

variations in knowledge come because of

the demographics of the audience you're

speaking to so age gender background

socioeconomic status location all sorts

of things and that's where the other

part comes in allied with knowledge

judgment intuition and arms with all the

possible data and information making

that right call over and over and over

again and if you do that the chances are

that you'll be pretty close to knowing

your audience in this case the African

football fan and that way you can find

the right way to give them what they

want and for them to stay with you every

step of the way and that is very much

what success looks like but what are the

nuances of this situation here in Africa

and in African football again the most

obvious comparison is is Europe as it

always is you look at the nearest

continent what are they doing there what

similarities exist in how this is

handled but where also can Africa be so

very distinct very individual very

unique I'm looking forward to once again

as I've been all the way through looking

to learn a lot in this next session so

let's welcome our speakers on stage the

managing director at IMG here Robin Cox

director at JDR Consulting Steve

kapalushnik strategy director at Jackson

group Kelvin Twitter and chairing the

conversation senior sports reporter at

sabc sports felilyandu please welcome

them once again on stage

[Applause]

thank you very much indeed guys this is

yeah the penultimate session on stage

we're looking forward to what you guys

have to say thank you very much Lee for

being here below the floor is yours

thank you

thank you

good afternoon

yandu it's my name I'm the

sports reporter at the sabc sport also

the chairperson of the South African

football generalist Association

but all of us in football we all

consider ourselves as fans

long before anything and I think right

here from Google merger and tumia

Wananchi in East Africa in Tanzania I've

also been there right in the middle of

covet that's where I was

um in in 2010

um very interesting um I should say the

experience that I had in in in Tanzania

um at the time but I think this

understanding of

a football fan and it's

something that all the brands

um we all agree that they're out to do

long before they committed to the game

in terms of

um what is

your ideal

um a football fan as I start with you

Calvin on this matter

um I think I'll speak more from

sub-Saharan context because it depends

on where you are but for countries like

Tanzania Kenya Zambia it cuts across all

income levels it is skewed to male but

then next to religion so I could be a

Christian a Muslim or believe in

Tradition the next thing that I have

strong belief and I'm highly connected

to will be a club and there are about

three layers from my ex perspective I

see that people are connected to the

local area they live so I could be from

there so bear city is my team but since

I live in the major cities Dar es Salaam

one of the clubs like a younger could be

it club that I'm Affiliated to and it's

easier to engage with younger as my

Tanzania team or my regional team even

when they participate in the region but

also from there we see that a lot of

people will skip from that to go to the

European leagues either EPL or La Liga

Etc with the EPL taking the most of it

and depends on the level of Engagement I

get where I can consume the sport how

far I understand the players and how

much I can really get that attachment to

an always-on engagement technology plays

a big role in terms of how people

interact not everybody goes on Twitter

Instagram and Facebook but they do have

local WhatsApp groups that are actually

named according to the team they like

both local as well as the other one they

can be engaged in multiple activities

from the we call them border border

Riders who are huge part of the

ecosystem in Tanzania these are guys who

give motorcycle rides a transport mean

apart from their small taxes and

everything else to the Traders and

everyone else and if you go to a typical

Stadium experience not everybody can go

to the stadium so it becomes quite

critical for that fan to be able to

access the team through many channels

throughout the Time of the Season and

especially more excitement when they're

able to qualify for the international

one so it is a conversation that's never

off as as the league progresses the

family has that conversation at church

there'll be that conversation recently

my mother was at a church fundraising

and she was shocked when the MC said

something she didn't understand the

emcee called a whole bunch of people

woke up and started screaming and they

were dancing and chanting and then they

called the other team and the same

happened and this was within a church

after the mass on the Sunday where they

were doing a fundraising so it is a

culture it is a religion it is part of

us it's part of who we are it doesn't

discriminate against age sex and you can

see that in a single family the typical

fan will start with the father and he

can be on one team or another the mother

can be different from that and then the

kids will develop based on their

friendship how they go to school who

they engage with they will end up

picking a team at the local level I

think it can be more common but at a

national level especially in the Premier

League in with the reference of Kenya or

Tanzania you either go Maria AFC or

you're younger or Simba you could be a

red arrows fan or TP mazembe whichever

one depending on where you are and that

becomes your second religion that you're

obsessed with when they win you're happy

when they're sad you're you cry and it

becomes part of our daily life

now I know

um With Me growing up in the Eastern

cave back in the days mutata pushbacks

was always the team because the club

also introduced us to a professional

football Elizabeth young reporters

growing up but

um you've long been in this space

um Stephen not just exposed to local

football

um here in in South Africa and even in

terms of

um most of the areas where you've

conducted deals as well traveling around

what would you picture as your ideal

African football fan

thanks felile and good afternoon to

everybody I think for me the fan is the

spiritual owner of the club he he or she

feels that it's their club that they

that that they're the boss of Their Own

It as Calvin said when when they when

they celebrate when they lose they

commiserate and it's it's a deeply loyal

and emotional relationship between the

fan and the club so it's

it can be generational you know when one

family member decides I've had enough

for moving it's a huge discussion it's a

huge debate you talk about bushbucks I

mean I remember the pasia family they

put so much energy into that club and

um

you know Mercedes-Benz would sponsor

them back in the day I'm talking about

15 years ago or something and the whole

community

they were fans but they felt that like

they owned the club so when you went

there they felt like it was their club

and that's why I say that they are the

spiritual owners of the club in the

sense a very good point that you've

mentioned this didn't because when

Mercedes events I started to sponsor the

club I think it was in the early 2000s

um bushbugs had to move

um they moved from

umtata to East London because the

business plan of Mercy disciplines

um was based in East London so for them

there to be that proximity and on on a

commercial

uh ending in this space

um when we talk about it now

in in terms of the base because we've

seen a lot of also Club displacements

um here in the country and when I'm

talking about about this one Robin how

important is that proximity between the

commercial brands that the clubs are

aligned to and so that they have this

a common language that they have and

selling a single message to to the fan

hello everyone thanks for having me

um

it's very important for your brand

alignment to match up I mean if you're

if your key sponsor doesn't have the

same ideals and visions and objectives

as you do then you guys are working at

Cross purposes so you want to be

targeting the same kind of fan the same

engaging with the same level of people

you want to ensure that your messaging

is is reaching

the club fans but also your your

um

the the people that you're trying your

target market and therefore if you're

going to engage with a brand it's not

can't just be about the money I mean

money is obviously important but at the

end of the day

the fan as Steve mentioned they have the

ownership of that brand they are the

ones who are going to buy the products

of your sponsors they're the ones who

are going to support your team they're

the ones are going to buy the tickets so

you need to be addressing them as well

as just like a revenue generator just

you know putting the game out there it's

like

understanding who your target market is

both from from a Football Federation as

well as as a brand and that's very very

key

before you go out into the market just

going for the top dollar understand what

the product is that you're trying to

create and what you're trying to sell

and who you're trying to reach and in

your experience having dealt with the

African football is is not really

happening

um in terms of

understanding what the African football

fan wants

um I think in some countries it's done

better than others but on the whole

there's definitely a lack of

understanding your fan and your target

markets and I think a lot of the

federations are unfortunately in a

situation where they might not be in in

the position to be able to to do the

research to understand to have the funds

to to generate that kind of information

and so therefore they're just doing

what's required of them without actually

realizing that by doing that they're

actually selling themselves short and

therefore there needs to be a proper

understanding of what is the product

because your fans aren't going to just

engage because you've got a match on the

field your fans are going to engage

because of that emotional link because

they've been challenged because they've

been included and they feel like they're

part of something bigger than themselves

and therefore to get to that point you

need to ensure that you actually know

who you're targeting and what you're

trying to achieve

which leads me to something that I've

seen before happening and in fact I see

it more with other Sporting Goods

because I've covered um Cricket before

there's something that I like Steven and

where you get to see

um

the players

especially maybe the players who are not

part of the match day squad on that day

going out to sign autographs

um

for the fans or even to be in an area

where they can easily easily and engage

the fans and that

understanding between the player and the

fan is always easy but I have not seen

it a lot in football

yeah definitely I think that there's a

lot more that can be done

if you look at the levels of Engagement

in Europe

between

the players and the fans it's much much

higher

in South Africa we do it but we could do

more

because ultimately that the player

brings the fan to the club

and if you speak about football with any

fan you'll talk about the players when

he talks about the club the two are

linked so

you know

I feel like the fans in South Africa are

getting a little bit of a ordeal I think

we can do a lot more uh there are some

reason some reasons for it that are

outside of our control

socio-political economic reasons for

example our data is very expensive in

South Africa compared to data charges

all around the world and that brings the

content to the fair so that's you know

on that point there's nothing really the

club or the league can do but on issues

around engaging in communities going to

schools going to hospitals going to

disadvantaged people having clinics

there's so much more that can be done a

very good point that you're raising

there because in as much as we're

talking about a digital era where most

of the things are also done on the

digital space but

um maybe coming from a background where

I'm working for a state broadcaster who

are dealing with more

traditional media on the ground and you

find that the most of the people who are

going to pack FNB Stadium or were going

to be my business

or who will go to her iguala and those

are people who will be listening to your

ukosi you know those are people who

will just be there on the ground without

um the digital influence which I feel

that sometimes as we talk more about and

the digital space we tend to ignore that

most of the people who are attending

machines are your traditionalists

I I agree with you on that one

um

when we talk about digital I think it's

also important to kind of quantify

depending on which part of Africa you

are South Africa has one of the highest

penetrations in terms of mobile phones

cost is still a factor but if you go to

the rest of Africa focusing on

sub-Saharan Africa there's still the

issue of what kind of device people are

using one of the biggest challenges we

face at the moment is how do we convert

75 to 80 percent of people who are not

on 4G therefore they cannot have the

full 360 experience of downloading an

app and enjoying such as but then

there's alternative ways to engage a fan

radio still is one of the leading Medias

that people consume heavily they can

follow a game while they continue with

other work if I'm a carpenter or if I'm

an Uber driver or a motorcycle rider I'm

able to listen to radio as I go about

and they follow beyond that there's a

radio station in in in Tanzania for

example that was able to become one of

the top main City radios simply by

having a four-hour program coming from

noon to 4 pm going deeper into sports

because the demand was there I want to

hear more about the players I want to

hear more about what's going on around

the world and this is the fact what the

what what the fan wants is they want

information how they get it is a very

interesting way the ecosystem they've

built is that that allows them to learn

I think for those who have smartphones

they don't consume it as it happens

necessarily but they do have groups so

if I am in if I am in Kenya I'll have a

Goma here fan where these are people I

know and there's always one who will

download but then they'll throw it in

the group so whenever I have my data

I'll download and I share they'll carry

on the conversation Twitter you can see

that conversation ongoing as well

Instagram as well as Facebook play quite

a huge part and now telegram picks up

the same as the fan the biggest thirst

they have is engaging with a team on a

365 day cycle they want to know what's

happening when we're going what's

happening with the coach what's

happening with the player it's a

relationship so the more information is

built and then that is linked to the

club it is what you call a community so

team young and she typically as we speak

about younger it is that younger

community that makes younger very very

strong not all everybody will come to

the stadium but they are highly engaged

and when given an opportunity to engage

with a club then they definitely do so

which creates a unique audience that now

Partners can come in and extract value

how do you come in it depends on what

product you have you rightfully

mentioned it Robin the product that

you're selling has to have relevance you

know we've seen like in formula one

where you have a cigarette brand on it I

mean like Formula One High Performance

Engine human endurance and then what

does it have to do with cigarette it's

there they've modified it but then when

it comes to football it's part of our

life

so whether it's drinking water a telecom

product or a banking services it's not

just about being a banking service it's

about me as a different level in my life

where I am different incomes how does

this brand make my life better how do I

appreciate my club for bringing me this

product so that without thinking too

hard of course the product has to

deliver I can come in and say you know

what this is a match made in heaven one

of the examples I think I can give we

are talking about fans being able to

have a piece of the club yeah

um I'm going to be biased and talk about

younger there are two special

Partnerships Azam is a broadcaster in

Tanzania who does both satellite as well

as other channels to this for

distribution they have an amazing app

that works and they broadcast almost all

the games in the Premier League so you

can follow all the games real time they

are able to build quite a unique

ecosystem but they also became a club

sponsor and they created a channel

specific for younger to get unique

behind the scene content and this is

something that has allowed more people

to see the players to understand who

they are to get those behind the scene

content as well now the other

partnership that works is gsm Sports

there came in with a strong retail

distribution and now half a million kids

even more are sold just before the

season starts so four GSM Sports it

makes sense to sponsor yanga as well be

their distribution partner because an

ecosystem exists now when you walk

around on younger day which is a

pre-season match everybody at the

stadium 60 000 people are wearing the

seasons kit very interesting very

interesting in fact we'll come back

because at some stage I was even

confused when I got there because I

thought GSM was owning the team no but

they actually they were the sponsors and

I want to come to this one um yesterday

because

in a province like here now in kzn

they've got five teams

um and when you look at

um in terms of also the numbers I think

this is the in terms of second biggest

in terms of numbers in the country in

terms of population kzn but it also

means that now

this is a situation where the clubs they

have has got to be very clear in terms

of marketing themselves because there's

a lot of competition from just maybe

having

um two teams in the top League or three

teams to five

and it means that it has got to be a

daily job in terms of

um targeting and having a strategy to

engage with the fnbase

yeah I think that um

if you look at a team like maritzburg

United they've really in in a short time

done an unbelievable and unbelievable

job play out of Harry gwala Stadium if

you go there I mean I've been there

it's it's a small stadium but the

Stadium's packed Friday nights yeah and

and it's become like a fortress Vitz did

the same thing I think a big problem in

South Africa and which I touched on

before was we've got these huge stadiums

and you you can have 10 000 people at

FNB but it looks empty whereas if you

have 10 000 people at Harry gwala it

looks full and that's about respecting

the fan and giving the fan a

unbelievable experience so that's where

we make that's where we can improve we

need to look at ourselves and say

look at what um look at what maritzburg

have done and others

um build your Fortress Bull and that's

all Community Based those people that

are coming there are they live in

maritzburg they're coming to the stadium

it's an unbelievable product the fan

wants a product he also wants engagement

he also wants to be spoken to he also

wants to be respected it's a very very

difficult thing and it's a bit of a

balancing act because you know you

always have this

this issue think about man united where

you've got the glazers and the fans hate

them you know Chelsea just fired their

coach Tommy tuckel brought in a new

coach the fans are are angry so you've

got to balance the communication between

the club and the fan because because the

fan is your bread and butter without the

fan you don't have a club

you know sometimes you you also want to

see a commission strong league but also

you you want to see a good package and

especially when you watch on TV in terms

of having the fans and

um one area that also impressed me when

a super sport entered into a deal to

broadcast

um the Ethiopian League

um you you could see and not just when

um

as Saint George was playing but even

just other matches

um and I'm happy now today Sundowns has

got Nasir who comes from

the Ethiopian League

for a TV package

but also well-attended matches how long

does that go to build this good brand

we're talking about

so I mean the reality is that for most

federations

more than 60 percent of their revenue

comes from their TV deal right so when a

a broadcaster like Azam or Supersport

come in and they're able to put in

millions of dollars what it does do it

is it then enables the Federation or the

league to actually start producing a

product

that is accessible it's enjoyable it's

it attracts fans and it's something that

that people want to watch therefore

you're going to start getting people

watching out on TV and people are going

to start coming to the stadium because

sadly now the product is good whereas

before there was a they might not have

been a product or if there was one it

just wasn't run correctly and then by

having your TV package yes it might be

exclusive and it might sit on a pay

Channel or behind a paywall but what it

is doing is it's actually building that

League to enable people to come in and

be a part of that league and take

ownership of That League and become fans

of those teams and either you go and

watch it in the stadium or you can watch

it on on television or you can watch it

in pubs or so it is accessible

it might not necessarily always be

affordable but it's accessible and the

reason it needs to be at this stage is

that unfortunately how the media

landscape sits in Africa is our

free-to-air broadcasters do not

necessarily generally don't have the

same Pockets that our pay TV you know

broadcasters have and therefore those

levels of investment can't be the same

so as much as I think everyone would

love to have sport fully available to

everybody there is a revenue situation

where a business has to be run and that

business is the business of football of

that Football League

so it needs to be managed to create this

product that everyone can then buy into

there's a service that I've seen I think

you're talking about Malawi uh

there's a service that I've seen and I

think it's a FIFA Plus

um and what FIFA plus does is that they

also show some of the leagues that you

don't get to see that are live streamed

and and do you think this can go a long

way to closing the gap on what we're

talking about uh earlier if I can just

jump in your point about Abu Bakr is a

brilliant point and that that just shows

something positive in the power

of football so Sundowns go and they sign

this this 21 year old from Ethiopia and

he there's a huge game and they're

playing against Chiefs and he scores a

wonderful goal and the next week on TV

you see this whole bunch of Ethiopian

fans wearing the Ethiopian National

shirt in the stadium and now they're

watching Sundowns and that's the power

of of of the fan because you know and

that's the power and the positivity of

bringing in an African player and then

after the game what happens is

the Sundown supporters are unbelievable

because they

it's a new thing you never saw it five

years ago they they sing and they they

applaud the team and they and then when

the coach goes and does his interview he

thanks the fans so that's just

heartwarming to see I mean you know

there are there's a lot wrong but

there's a lot right so yeah which would

then lead me to what

then in in driving this commercial

message what becomes the next points

should Sundowns and go to Eris Ababa go

and activate there

um just to

to ride on this

um good messaging

um coming out and starts to build this

new fan base because I mean if you look

at the numbers I think Ethiopia is the

most populous country uh one of the most

popular controls on the content I think

after after Nigeria you know so

this thing of you don't just limit in

terms of activating to to your friend

base here

um you also go to those areas where you

know that each and every time Nasir is

playing he's being watched but if it's

onyango you go and activate in kambala

you know

um

it just goes on like that

I think whenever there's an opportunity

whenever there's international players

in a team it offers a huge opportunity

for any club to be able to Market itself

across the region and even furthermore

across the continent

um we we have a play a quick example you

mentioned wanyama in Kenya who was

playing for the EPO everybody in Kenya

became a supporter of that team we have

a player now who plays in gank and when

he went to play in the EPL the EPL you

see it's crazy a country like Tanzania

people love Instagram so you have uh

typical artists 10 million followers

football players one million two million

quite high so the club that he went to

had like a 400 000 followers but the

minute they signed him samata they went

up by 300 000 in one day and this is

like shocking to them they never looked

at Africa as a market that follows the

EPL but that's their reality and we can

take a motto of looking at what La Liga

is doing in the market they are trying

to create value build Partnerships set

up offices across Africa as well and for

clubs that are well established over

many years like Orlando Paris and the

rest I think the the the DStv kind of

deal it opens up a whole new audience

for them and people are in Ethiopia did

not see live games every day during the

league now that's a massive opportunity

in terms of they can consume the game I

think I go back to my initial Point

access is very important it's not only

important within the country but also

within the continent and Beyond because

it boosts a lot of things you're able to

see the talent you're able to follow the

game you're able to follow the results

you're able to build a relationship with

the players but then the content doesn't

end with just seeing the game it also

goes to what kind of content is built

around the game to ignore the players

more as they train the coaches will was

the thinking and when you build such a

strong ecosystem and you allow the fans

to consume that content throughout the

day when they want on demand as it is

then that makes it quite possible for

people to follow through

um the biggest broadcaster for sports I

think in Africa is super sports and them

carrying the Ethiopian League definitely

offers a unique opportunity for talent

to be to be seen across the board I've

seen now this in sub-Saharan Africa we

see players from Burundi playing in

Kenya we see players from uh from Congo

playing in Tanzania we see Tanzanian

players who are seen through the

broadcast field being able to be sold in

countries like turkey some play North

Africa which is Africa but fairly

disconnected to what we are talking

about in terms of sub-Saharan Africa and

in terms of uh in terms of businesses

right when there is that for for

pan-african brand football creates a

unique opportunity where you can get

presents and people will see you across

earlier other speakers talked about it

can be the club but also the players

have part of the IP rights that are sold

maybe not as individuals but rather

three players four players and these are

best practices that are done across the

world I don't see why a Samsung or

Hisense or whatever who have got into

World Cup shouldn't be working with the

local leagues to also Drive their brand

awareness also trying to convert at the

local level so again

an ecosystem has to build to be built to

allow the fan to engage and this is a

challenge for both the club leadership

another speaker earliest mentioned

something that I always feel very

disturbing where when you open the

newspapers you see more about the

leadership of the Federation rather than

the players the captain stories and this

is one of those things where we say if

we want to build a business we cannot

build it on an elected or appointed

official rather build it on the talent

that's playing on the pitch

just briefly on this one don't go too

much on it because it's going to go back

to you on what you've just mentioned and

I think there's a football administrator

I respect a lot he's here I won't

mention his name

um way back he went to to Kenya and this

is your region and and he would I

remember him saying to me he had to

fight with Kenyan football officials

because they wanted to start a football

match

um at one o'clock

um and their scheduled time normal time

I think it was just after three but now

they didn't want to play that game at

three because it's clashing with an EPL

game now what message is that sending

into a football fan if

this fa or this national league is

trying to alter

it's kickoff times and giving respect to

to another League

I think it's very important to to be

proud of the product that we have

absolutely it is very important to

understand that globally there is

thousands of games being played every

day but as we build the the the the the

the the interest of football I I say I

got interested in football when I was in

primary school and we'll say are you

younger or Simba and so one group goes

on one side and another goal so even if

you're not interested all of a sudden

now based on the friends you have you

either have to be Kaiser Chiefs or

Orlando Pirates because that's how you

split when you're done you don't you

don't you say you have to pick a side

and then from there you grow into it

over time but then when you are now in

2022 and then a decision is made not for

you as a fan for someone to say no this

game should not be available I think we

should really put the fan front and

center of the whole experience around

the game at the end of the day the

rights for the EPL were paid for

somewhere they are done that money

doesn't come to the Federation but the

league that we're building locally

whether it's in Kenya Tanzania Ronda

Burundi or Zambia it needs the funding

to develop it and go further and for us

to attract the business viewing a game

at 12 it doesn't make any sense people

are busy with their life trying to do

what they do to earn their living the

weather the weather can be obviously

it's very very hot I mean in Tanzania

you cannot play a game at 12. but even

in Kenya depending what time of year it

is so it's very important to also make

it accessible I go back again now props

to the Federation working with Azam

they've put light so games are on at 7

pm so you can sit in a pub on any given

day and you are able to watch a game

that is played in either Zanzibar or

dodoma dodoma which is the capital city

also has a stadium there's a team there

called the dodoma FC the games are

played at night so that's changing the

landscape you're giving people more

access to the game and what's important

is you're giving more value to the

sponsors the TV audience at 12 is quite

small irregardless but the TV audience

at six or four pm or 8 PM becomes much

higher so that you can package whether

it's their own in-stadium branding

television broadcast that is happening

in terms of their Sports their squeeze

backs Etc and then going beyond that you

can also pull the additional activations

where you can look at digital how do you

redistribute the content online through

your channels other partners Etc which

gives additional reach for the brand but

most importantly more access to the fans

now there's different forms of

broadcasting and today at sabc sport

we're launched an Ott program and when I

look at it because I work more also on

on on the production side and one of the

exciting programs that have been part of

um is working with the Hollywood bets

um Super League

that is and we don't see it a lot

happening in other countries it's

women's football guaranteed at least two

to three measures every weekend and now

know okay maybe it was one game on

national TV but the Ott it means that

people will be able to access those

matches

um just in their own time but most

importantly

um we've seen Kev next year they are

introducing the Kev Super League where

it's standard in terms of the club

licensing regulations that each and

every club that participate is there

must have

um they must have a women's team or they

must be aligned to a women's team

from a strategy because most of what

we're talking about here is men's

football in terms of the approach and

talking to the fan so is this something

that now the clubs must also start to

keep it in their mind to say when we

talk about what kind of a fan this is

both for women's football and men's

football

absolutely I mean we've all seen the the

spike and interest in women's football

um you know America winning the the

world will they participation in the

World Cup England and they um and and

then stadiums 96 million people watching

on TV coming into this area so there is

a massive growth of of fans and they're

not just women they're they're football

fans and and and I think that's very

important is the fact that women's

football needs to be brought up to the

level that men's football is because

it's still a football product and

therefore by engaging with the different

clubs to ensure that they have women's

teams as well they need to invest the

same amounts of money so that they can

deliver deliver the same product so that

what they're delivering is football not

men's football or women's football

they're delivering a product to the

football fan and that's why it's great

to see that that you know all the big

federations the leagues they're all

starting to bring women's teams in it's

whether or not they played at the same

time and given the same amounts of

airtime that's so important in order to

make the woman's sport become part of

football and not just be oh the women's

teams playing now you know you need it

to be football not not no

differentiation

and um you know so I think this is a

very good move and in South Africa today

we have

16 teams in our Premier League of those

16 only two have women's teams it's

unacceptable how can you how can you

create

women fans fans of the women's game if

you've only got two League two of your

teams

have women's football so these are the

things that we have to work on and these

things should definitely be compulsory

if you want to have a team in the league

you need to have a women's team end of

story

100 in fact there's a research paper

that I've just submitted

in in one of the courses that I was

doing that talks exactly to that but it

it but it also talks more about our role

as the media the disparity in the

coverage of the game how is it also

affecting the gender parity but that is

the story for another day we are talking

about

there used to be three before

um teams and that was I think swallows

hits it at some stage also had a women's

team but Celtic now that club has moved

to to here Royal am but what I'm trying

to say is there's a football fan one of

the most popular football fans who has

been displaced and he was the symbol of

football fans on the continent in 2019 I

remember we're covering the afcon are

you everyone read about his trip uh Rob

was here early on he was very much

involved in that in water but botak also

comes from a displaced or a non-existent

club so in terms of that Stephen you've

been in that space in terms of

um this selling and buying and how it

also affects

um the football Market because you are

also having brands that would have

aligned with some of these clubs because

of their fan base and then

in just one transaction that whole fan

base is gone yeah that's a brilliant

Point absolutely I mean we had you would

go to cesaramaburu and watch

bloomfontein Celtic play on a Wednesday

afternoon at 4 30 packed you would go to

wits on a Friday night pact vits was I

think 99 years old it was a 99 year old

club that got sold there's no more vets

so we're those fans you had

multi-generational fans

that supported the club the club's gone

so

you know it goes down to respecting the

fan also because players are important

fans are important everybody's important

so

it's uh you know it's a big big problem

I mean poor Botha is looking for a club

to support I suppose I don't know where

he is he's looking for a club

when I've seen him but I always seem he

goes with a club that has got that is

playing against the big Club so that he

can he can be visible because when he's

with the big Club the visibility will

not be the same but Kevin there's

something that I've seen and and I would

not say to me it looked across as

deliberate when I went to the cardiac

Derby but I've also seen it in North

Africa

um especially with al-ali and also with

Raja when Allah they used to be a fans

around it

the activating

around the stadium and even here at home

I don't see it a lot but it impressed me

in in East Africa to see it happening

even though I didn't see the

involvements of the clubs but it was

just other brands around the game doing

it

when you

hit Derby which is for Tanzania example

and we're talking about the career code

Derby which is younger versus Simba both

clubs are from Dar es Salaam both

started in the 30s they were part of the

pre

[Music]

um

the part of the whole movement for

Independence

um

the history is Rich but

the advancement in technology

communication and opportunities for

engagement has changed how things happen

so typically at the kickoff of the

Season you have younger Simba day which

and then the first game which you

experienced which was actually a career

called Derby is the most interesting one

it is not done by the fans it is done by

the clubs themselves one of the most

critical things I think they've learned

over the years is that it's very

important to quantify the number of fans

that you have so today younger and Simba

can easily say that you know we are one

of the biggest clubs in terms of online

media following two three million four

million fans that are following online

but I was privy to look under it and see

that they have huge engagements you know

10 million visitors unique just on

Instagram on one side serving 50 million

impressions online this is younger

statistics and now growing even beyond

that but that is one aspect now how do

you bring it on the ground the whole

Derby becomes like a month-long

activation they bring in Media Partners

on radio they start talking about it

they bring in vote for your favorite

team you can do like a lot of type of

SMS see who raises more money than the

other the other club but then we have

also seen especially this year where

other guys are coming in and saying

listen let's uh activate just for the

Derby and as long as it does not

infringe with other rights then they are

able to do their own ground Activation

so it doesn't

bother with the perimeter balls

necessarily but outside and around the

stadium they're able to do setup but

there's a question that Stephen kept on

asking you let's leave the derby

in terms of the other teams

I think I'll answer this question by

saying it's a challenge

um going back to our agenda how does uh

what does football need to know to grow

I think there are about three sites that

need to know a few things for us to get

the Derby experience across all games in

terms of the federations under the

government guidance invest more on

infrastructure based on the size of the

base so I don't expect 60 000 fans in

there but 10 000 stadium is fair

um on the governance making sure

everything is in place we run making

sure that their Partners will come on

board they are protected I think one of

the biggest challenges I've had in my

previous career as a sponsor was rights

being infringed by someone you know you

were you're around you're a Vodacom and

then somebody brings another tail

corporator who just does an activation

around you that partnership should be so

strong and someone on the other side of

the fence should be able to take care of

you having worked with Global Partners

like Everton they actually have a whole

commercial Department Rights Management

your IP is never a problem in fact they

ask you of ways where they can unpack so

it's important for the clubs to

understand that but at the end of the

day if there is the right Stadium if the

rights are being taken care of and the

partners are bringing in money now we

bring in the fan how do we keep the fan

always engaged irregardless because

front right and center the fan is what

value that the club has and the fan is

not an individual it's a community so

for us to bring money into football that

Community has to be the focal but some

basic things have to be laid out to move

forward just a quick wrap up Robin now

you know I was encouraged yesterday I

was doing an interview and to also find

out that um Zambia inspired by what

their neighbors and brothers and sisters

in South Africa have done in terms of

having

um

highly successful commercial PSL

which is a special member to suffer and

now Zambia is also following that route

and I think this becomes for the Zambian

Super League or the professional League

this discussion becomes key to them what

would be your advice

um to them as they start this New Era

um

but doing things the right way from what

we're talking about

focus on your fan understand your

community and understand your target

market because those are the people that

are ultimately going to create the

product that you are wanting to deliver

and in terms of accessibility

um that we're talking about here Stephen

because accessibility for the fans

especially

um of the venue it becomes key yeah I

think accessibility is important

but I think

you know I think data is super important

but in South Africa for example the sabc

has got 19 radio stations and they are

super they're the most important because

they are who's talking to a fan now so

we can go back to Europe we can look at

all of that but we've got to look at the

reality on our ground and I think um I

think radio has been unbelievable they

talk to millions of fans every day all

over Africa for that matter and I think

we should applaud them and focus on that

a little bit more and I want to talk

radio I talk in my language more than 20

years in the business and that's where I

started and that's where I've been and I

think in as much as we've got these

challenges but also at the same time and

especially from Afghan perspective we've

seen most of our matches especially big

measures being sold out

um and and you've also seen decent crowd

even outside meshes uh that involved the

big three as well which is something

that is encouraging and we hope that

when the new Super League kicks off next

season I see that it could be going to

Rwanda yeah um it will be played in

front of a big stance big crowds as well

absolutely

we thank you

thank you very much indeed

we've come to the end of our penultimate

session ladies and gents please make

your way off the stage to your left very

much appreciative

thank you thank you everyone

yeah very sort of

again I think that what I find with all

of these sessions is that there's

there's always something you can kind of

refer to and there are some real basic

learnings that we can all we can all

understand quite simply

respect for the fan

without fans football is nothing

absolutely nothing doesn't matter how

many World Cups and champions leagues

and you know Women's World Cups all of

that we staged if we don't you know

consider our fan in every decision we

make we might as well just take our ball

home and forget about it

um and Robin's quotes about

understanding again what your product is

who what you're trying to sell who

you're trying to reach it's real simple

but crucial absolutely pivotal stuff and

yeah again like the uniqueness of of

Africa which I've come to and learned to

appreciate alternative ways to engage

fans other than with fast internet of

course you know we talk about the Advent

of 4G 5G you know all the tech

innovations that you like but quite

simply as we were hearing from Kelvin

radio is big in Africa and it reaches to

the deepest regions and today the fan

wants information and how they get it is

a very interesting case and the

ecosystem they've built is what allows

them to learn so maybe you have to

consider things in a different way you

have to you know not necessarily be

driven by the latest fad we had a

session on web 3 2.0 we were talking

about nfts about crypto and about the

metaverse you know maybe we have to just

look at things in a different way over

here