Are football clubs doing enough to support mental health? | The Debate | Kirkland, Boyd and Purkiss

[Music]

welcome back to this debate special on

World Mental Health Day and time now for

some of your tweets guys in no

particular order you can take these as

they come

managers in all careers have a

responsibility to be there for their

employees or employees rather our

football managers disconnected from

their players and too focused on other

areas of the game such as tactics and

coaching from my experience I think it

varies from managed manager to manager I

think some are more aware of issues than

others I think one that springs to mind

we spoke about previously David flick

Croft who's had who's real awareness of

these issues because he's dealt with

these issues not necessary himself but

people around him previously and he was

Bruce Lee who's chris's manager at berry

when when he had problems so for me it

varies from manager to manager I think

there is a responsibility there and

that's for us to work with people from

the LMA for example and you know the

league Managers Association and then

probably needs to be that education

amongst you know managers across the

board players across the board and then

coming together just like Alcorn yeah I

was lucky because obviously I was a

barian and Dave had been through a

similar similar sort of thing and he

said to me straight away you know you

need to go to the PFA you need to get

help so I was looking at respect that he

knew as a manager and my manager I mean

I went to him said listen you can have

to meet my contractor I can't play

anymore you know and I told him the

issues and he told me right whether you

need to do this you know you think I was

the PFA so you know in that respect I

was lucky that he was my manager at the

time okay Alec Chris should the Football

Association's make it mandatory that the

clubs employ a psychologist just as you

would employ a physio yeah thanks for

for me but I think it's employer

counselor yeah but I think I think it

needs to be there a peer so you notice

but for me I think you know that makes

it one player and make not certain that

they look less or what that it be so

open that they are also much offended

veggie was dealing with you know

one I think you need to you need to find

someone that you trust and been spoke

about as well you need to find someone

that you trust so I don't really think

that having someone nearly so because

gonna way from subject bit gone if

Ezra's Norval Goodfellas are good of all

turtles that are bad you know but you

know but that's that's my ticket at the

make dollar players that made a late the

ones I doesn't leak yes or you need to

you need fame the bombs click with them

haven't have been there with them when

the clubs had a psychologist and a few

of the players when we spoken I like

afterwards just how did that go and they

don't want to speak openly with the

psychologist because they're employed by

the Football Club so there's that

concern conflict yeah a conflict that

concern as to whether there's that

independence there and obviously

professional standards require that it's

confidential and you shouldn't leave but

the the nature of Spore

is that often often things get lead and

you know so perhaps you wouldn't be on

the clubs to do that but maybe you'd

like some independence or somebody that

networks around of a few clubs but I

think also that it it always seems to be

that something like this comes up when

results you know managers are you know

the club will brag on people when

results are going against them you know

when you know and things I'm not great

they'll going normal try this will try

that you know and players automatically

think I ain't going to speak to

hammerheart because he's gonna take

everything back to the mines they're

gonna take Kevin at the coach you know I

saw what I'm seeing is that if you're

running those thought needs to be people

around that you can speak to if you're

getting beat the stone needs to be

people I don't that you know you can't

just have it because you're getting beat

that all of a sudden all those I say

college it stands up let's go and speed

that he's going to cured everything it

doesn't what like that no I'll get it

out because I've been at a club I won't

name the club Burt psychologist did come

in and this was before what I'd went

through and and I was like no way you

know what Bob would you need that for

I'm gonna speak to them it's ridiculous

and it's alright it was almost a laugh

in the changing room that somebody had

come in but now have somebody come in

now haven't been what a through I went

through it then oh yeah go straight or

all day long I think there's still that

concern though that if you go to see the

psychologist or even a club doctor or

whatever that then people are aware of

that so people might ask the question if

you're not playing particularly well for

whatever reason and then you they see

that you go see the psychologist but

they can't ask what it's about

but they know that you've been so then

know there's an issue so then they start

focusing on you focusing on your

performance and again that's where

things like the confidential helpline

things like external bodies perhaps are

better while while that stigma is still

there

it also flips over into as we talked

earlier as well about mental wellness

which is very different from actual

mental illness where you know players

should be able just to go into the door

at the end of crates yeah I've got to go

and see whatever his name is Denys or

whatever and have a chat and it should

be seen as quite normal yeah but I think

also it's baggage if that loss players

will have bad games you know it's okay

to have a bad game you know it's that's

not a mental illness you know you have

and you feel down about that and then

you know maybe even leave the same the

next week but you know if it's continued

if you are playing football and you're

not enjoying it then there's a problem

you know you maybe want to seek help

them but you know if it's because of

your performances you know I don't think

that I don't really like the mental

health if you for that I think that bad

game you know it's it's a bad game you

know but a lot of people will maybe look

to you know their mental health and the

mental illness you know to cover that up

as well quite an interesting tweet here

from Joshua who asks the question is

there still as much Spig m'a and we know

there is a stigma is this still as much

stigma surrounding mental health in

football as there was 10 or 20 years ago

despite being teammates do you think

players now currently the openly talk

about these issues in the dressing room

there's definitely not as much as it was

but again people are only talking now in

football because of what's been going on

the last couple years our more out in

the open it is now again I kick them

about this all the other stuff that's

going on to players it of coming out

what the PFA are trying to do as well so

the stigma is definitely lifting but I

don't think he'll ever completely go no

seriously you know you see a team squad

I go on everybody jumps in this a

library and enjoy the moment

because the team Scott you don't need

you don't like everybody it's on your

team you know so as finding that balance

of you know less player may come and

speak to you that's player may not and

but because everybody celebrates to get

on the Saturday beam year you know you

when the game you scored a goal it

doesn't mean they say that everybody's

together and they all love eachother the

good thing is well it's kinases picked

them out people have come up to bail

been in contact in sport but also in the

street coming up to his when I'm out and

coming up just shaking their hand thanks

for you know don't even know the people

the amount of people that have come up

to us when I've been out he's been

incredible and testifies bit and that's

why that's why we do it for Chris Europe

I mean you've been called a veteran for

about from walking them about the last

fifteen years

are you are you stealing yourself for

retirement is it are you at all anxious

because that is one period where we have

seen ex-athletes in particularly

footballers they really really struggle

when they retire for for a number of

different reasons with there's the

dreadful number of all footballers to

get divorced something like seventy

percent get divorced in the first year

they stop playing because the dynamic

has changed and a lot of footballers do

suffer from depression when they stop

playing

is there enough help out there right now

to prepare you fellas for when I don't

get divorced not less I think I think

that are you where it's gonna be a

challenge I think the biggest challenge

for me because I am but you know I'm

somebody at Lake Sicario in a joke a

laugh yeah I think that will be probably

the biggest challenge for me when I

finish but you know in terms of your

preparing yourself for having a plan I'm

always someone who you know I think you

need to look beyond not too far but you

know I finished my coaching badges I

wanted to end under less because you

know I think that and that's with a lot

of players do struggle because you to

come at the end and all of a sudden it's

like what we're going to do and they

start scrambling about their underplay

ashati to you know to be bowels and look

after the family as such you know if

you've got a plan in place you know I

would always encourage any youngster to

go and do the coaching by juice you know

you might not go job but you've got them

and another thing you know for me I've

I've done a lot of media stuff nervous

bill so yes you know even if it's caught

on TV radio stuff you know it may be

when I come to you know the end of my

career I can look and say well I'm good

at that I'm not so good at you know I'm

going to leave that one cord

- and this one whereas a lot of players

when they finish I'm going to try

everything I'll see how that's course

you know and for me that's been or what

people do come and fall and it Pat falls

there was a fascinating report not so

long ago that showed that when athletes

trains the level that you guys did and

you stopped playing you produce less of

the chemical serotonin and serotonin is

exactly the drug they give you when

you're depressed it's an antidepressant

so it's almost saying you're

pre-programmed to be depressed when you

stop playing it actually yeah that

sertraline then it's serotonin is the

actual chemical it's it's it's quite

frightening I think that underlines the

importance of players like preparing and

thinking about what they are going to do

next

I mean you touch on coaching and media

but there's limited jobs available in

the football industry and I spoke about

me and it's alright now think in terms

of and gone back to players being on

this pair they're still what if you

think and go job you need to go and go

job but it's very difficult to to avoid

out a career but then have to start

completely from the bottom at 34 35 36

because you haven't acquired you've

acquired skills obviously but not

necessary skills that will prepare you

for another industry let's say and I and

I my theory is that footballers who have

changed dramatically over the last 5-10

years because they're educated

tactically they're educated about

nutrition and they're educated on on all

these different aspects of the game

which means that they have like a more

inquisitive mind and that and they are

perhaps it's like the the stupid

footballer is dead you know I've firmly

subscribed to that I think there's

players that want to do that want to be

directors of football clubs directors of

football use their experience in that

way I'll go into other industries so so

I think people doing and preparing for

that transitional phase is is crucial

particularly because you lose your

identity you lose everything you've

you've ever worked for and if you

haven't prepared you are starting from

from you know you're going into

entry-level positions in other

organizations I mean the people the

feedback I get from a lot of

they just feel lost structure it's a

structure I when I had to stop you know

after a certain amount of time I miss

that once I started feeling better I

miss that structure like you know we're

told from an early age I told what where

to be what time to Train what to eat

everything like that and I actually I

actually missed that and now I'm 14

enough to be back in it you know I'll

always be involved in football I mean

the coaching buddies one I I going

through them now I mean I'm still got

lots to do but I wanted to start them

years ago but because of what happened

it was the last thing on mine you know

when I was I think was when I was 28 29

I thought oh I'll do this but then after

going through what I've been through you

know I couldn't do it but now I'm going

through now hopefully I'll always be

being involved with football I think

also as well though that the public

could put footballs and I've said the

illah footballs and SP they're still and

they don't want to come off and I think

is for a lot of footballs that can be an

embarrassment saying that when they

finish that you know people are not

they're not getting the same

communication of you know how is a game

at the weekend how it was gonna iron

blah blah blah blah you know people want

to speak to you and I think that's maybe

something that a lot of players struggle

weren't you mentioned that tension the

dressing rooms in massive one ah the

dress I sit up nor viewed huge one the

dress room he's that's what I think

that's probably what no I'm saying the

place I wonder what do you miss the most

the dressing room and I certainly did Oh

certainly mr. Jai Simha

you can't tell everybody what goes on

another night at Carolina right

unfortunately are out of time it's been

an absolutely fascinating evening I

really can't thank you all three of you

enough Chris I wish you continued

success with the charity and the

wonderful work you're doing Chris keep

spreading the word and great to see

looking well thank you and then keep up

the good work with the PFA as well come

back and see us again as well and as you

saw at the bottom of the screen if you

do have indeed some problems and you

need to talk to somebody please get in

touch with Samaritans