Prisoners of Gravity. The first comic book, sci-fi, pop culture TV show.

hello denizens of the internet today I

have a very special guest Rick green a

member of the frantics comedy group so

we are we are one half the two of us

represent one half of them

but we don't have the ticks the ticks

the ticks are not here so I apologize

but we're not here to talk about the

frantics I know many of you have uh

discovered the frantics when I mentioned

Dr Demento and uh to the head and you

would you responded in your comments

wait a second I actually know you uh

we're a lot older and grayer no but we

were back then but today

one of the things that you don't know

about Rick uh he was a Pioneer along

with the producer Mark Asquith on a show

called prisoners of gravity that was the

first show I think ever that covered

popular culture through comic books and

fantasy and things like that so you were

really early in on the the game and it's

just it's just amazing so this is what

we're going to talk about uh I want to

find out about your interviews with the

people who have now become extremely

famous like uh George R or Matt Martin

people like that yeah well when we

started so it was it would have been

1989 uh it was groundbreaking it was at

TV Ontario which is the PBS of the

province of Ontario and uh Mark had gone

in and talked to Daniel richler whose

father is mordecai richler who is a

famous author and about the idea of

doing comic book show and um

Mark had worked in the comic field and

basically had a store he had the silver

snail yeah he didn't own it but he was

he made it work and he did it that was a

fantastic comic bookstore it's my

favorite comic books they still be a

going I don't know so Mark uh they had

this idea but Mark didn't want to be on

camera and I happened to be in at TVO uh

with a couple of ideas for kids shows

and one for a science show and they said

none of these shows involved drag queens

at the time no not not then not on

camera it wasn't very Progressive not

like now so yeah so we uh it so they

called me and said would you be willing

to come and audition and I have a fellow

here named Mark ask with I said I I play

ball hockey with Mark asked with every

Sunday right right yeah yeah I remember

so anyway I'll get with you

yeah you were a good goalie too thank

you

um and then so I went in with this idea

I can't just sit there in front of a

bunch of books and talk about comics and

science fiction fantasy as like at some

uh uh educational Channel thing yeah

even though it's an educational Network

so I came up with the idea of Commander

Rick he's up in space he tried to flee

the planet Earth because it's going to

hell in a hand basket but his car

rocket-powered Chevy crashed into a

space satellite uh communication

satellite so he's hijacking the airwaves

to talk about the important issues uh

environment and violence and sexism and

racism and all of the rest of it we're

going to talk about these things with

the only people who have Solutions and

have some imagination that's fantasy

specular fiction like book all these

people science fiction authors yeah so

it was and and your intro was done by Ty

uh Templeton yep who's one of my

favorite comic books fabulous and it's a

fabulous intro yeah oh my God that was a

good intro yeah so the first season was

really problematic we had why uh just

behind the scenes there was some

um somebody who didn't understand

we just but it was a Lost season I don't

think anyone will see them I don't even

know if those tapes exist anymore which

is a shame but then the second season we

got an editor producer uh Greg throwback

who came from much music from uh that

background and he instantly got what we

were trying to do the opening got cut

together beautifully and we came up with

every week we were trying to explore a

theme which is what I really wanted to

do was you know this week we're going to

talk about violence would be simple but

eventually we got into things like cover

art we got into

um the city uh the city at night or

whatever we had these interesting themes

that would span horror speculative

fiction or fantasy fiction science

fiction comic books and so you could

have all these different people and so

what we did we went out and interviewed

uh at conventions at conferences we'd

sit down one author artist whatever

after another and it's one weekend in

New York at a science fiction convention

I guess it was for one of the awards uh

we we interviewed I think 60 people in

three days we had two cameras going

there were four of us doing the

interviews we were rotating we came back

with all a ton of footage and then what

we would do is so we interviewed Stan

Lee we interviewed Jack Kirby when he

was still alive uh we interviewed it was

hard to interview him after he wasn't

alive but like all of these Legends are

back then Todd McFarland who was hot and

uh because you know one of the guys the

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle guy and

um and then you know all of the people

who were doing the superhero stuff and

really interesting stuff Mobius from

Europe and uh in the who designed the

alien uh yeah and Aliens did he yeah

yeah yes that's right that's right yeah

so anyway yeah we came back with all

this footage but what would happen is we

put together a show on the city and

you'd have a minute and a half of Stan

Lee and then it would go to uh you know

William Gibson talking about cyberpunk

and then it would go to uh some pop

through all these people to deal with

the theme the fans were outrage oh my

God you had Stan Lee and you only talked

to him for 30 seconds no no wait wait

wait interesting because we also because

and we went in before we went to any of

the conferences we had a long list of

topics so we were you know and it meant

everybody was reading the thing that

eventually happened was I was doing

writing and hosting prisoners of gravity

and I was also writing

co-writing directing and performing in

the red green screen right with Steve

Smith so once year I did I think I did

50

52 or 56 episodes of Television of

something yeah or something it was just

and so they were doing most of the

interviews they were going to the

conferences and Mark to this day knows

everybody in comic books uh and in that

whole graphic novel but getting back to

the other thing that you mentioned that

the fans were angry about but they were

happy to get Stan Lee multiple times

throughout the year once people got it

they were because I would rather see

that yeah I mean I don't want to see if

Stanley once and then I'm done with them

yeah for five minutes or 20 minutes

right what's interesting is that

the people who got interviewed that the

people were interviewed especially these

science fiction authors but everybody

wanted to be interviewed by us and

became our Champions because I remember

I forgotten who it was but one of the

conferences uh somebody was well I don't

know if I'll do the interview that we'd

approached them I think Mark approached

them and another author came over and

tapped

do they get your

you've read your work they know what

they're right and they're oh okay and

they so they became the evangelists and

everywhere we went people were willing

to talk with us because well you were

the very first I mean you talked with

Harlan Ellison who's a hero of mine we

have a list of people so uh can you tell

me whether these people were nice or not

Harlan Ellison was Great Harvest Ellison

is a fierce uh he's a he's got a bit of

you in him oh you have a bit of him in

them except he had more of a lady killer

than I did yeah he the girls have

flocked Ray Bradbury Stan Lee Michelle

Nichols I never heard of her Nichelle

Nichols serenaded me wow I said I'm up

here she was in one half of the studio

I'm on the set apparently up in space

I'm lonely up here could you and she she

was doing a one-woman show where she was

doing all of the great black singers and

soul singers and blues singers what a

voice and she serenaded me just hair

went up in the back of the neck wow

Ursula Kayla wow Michael murcock Brian

oldest Alan Moore Frank Miller and rice

Larry Niven Clive Barker Douglas Adams

William Gibson Jack Kirby Bob Kane from

Batman Mobius guy Gabrielle K who is

still writing Michael Dorn David

Cronenberg Todd McFarland Neil pert uh

Roberta blondard she actually apparently

wore one of our t-shirts she's the

Canadian be an astronaut yeah and she uh

went up on the shuttle apparently she

took along one of our t-shirts somebody

said so uh yeah Timothy Leary

Michael Dorne Matt Groening wow Solomon

rashti Terry Pratchett uh from good omen

so and this I think we're 500 or 600

interviews that we did and how many

total shows apart from the aborted

season one there's like

110 something like that somewhere uh

between 100 and 100 now TBO has not

officially re-released any of these

shows they can't for legal reasons

because but they're kind of available on

YouTube If you yeah so I'm hoping to

actually in the next few months over the

winter get some more up there for people

to see and they're fantastic they are

absolutely groundbreaking show there no

idea well and Greg and Shirley who was

Shirley Brady was awesome so they were

they were so dedicated well here's

what's interesting so we do this show

about all all of the specific kind of

outcast Underdog

disrespected genres meanwhile TVO had a

show called uh not second reading

imprint imprint right and they would

interview Margaret Atwood although we'd

send along three questions so we got

some Margaret Atwood talking about

handmaid's tale obviously yeah she's a

science fiction writer yeah she is so we

got we

we were competing at this one hour show

that had a huge budget we had a tiny

budget and and

we beat them in the ratings right

because and it was the really this was

before the internet obviously but this

was the first hint about narrow casting

instead of broadcasting like if I'm a

big fan of PD James murders I'm not that

interested in hearing an episode a show

that's about Salma Rushdie and uh and

somebody else uh you know people who are

not of my genre so but we were the

number of emails that we got in and

letters back then it was all letters

saying you know I live I live in a small

town I thought I was the only person who

had heard of these people who understood

you know Mouse uh what's his name's

thing about the whole right right the

guy who did the cartoon yeah yeah I

can't remember uh like that was

as seagull Joe speaks yeah

yeah so spiegelman spiegelman that's it

thank you and yeah yeah 650 you know so

they were doing the interviews and then

they came together they put it in a in a

script they gave me all of the quotes

and suggestions and said can you link

this to link that to link this to

so then I would take it away and come up

with a way of interacting and then all

these layers are connecting it all

together into a a coherent piece that

was funny that was informative that

assumed you'd heard of these people so

that phrasing had was really different

writing from Comedy because well it was

a bit like sketch comedy because you had

to be really compact you had to

introduce all your characters in four

lines and so on so it was you know you

would have to not only mention why Jack

Kirby was important but you know what he

does so your education educating people

who potentially had no idea who Jack

Kirby was or you were reaching people

who knew everything about Jack Kirby and

loved him right and so you know I mean

it started with Star Trek but long

before that people were adamant and they

were they wanted it done right and the

first season it wasn't done right in the

second third fourth and fifth Seasons we

nailed it and it it got so good and and

one of the things that I loved this was

a sign that we were people were doing

what we we love you know the the Slate

that goes on uh before the when the tape

is made up they put a slate with the

title prisoners of Gravity episode 27

right the city well the editor Brian uh

Brian Brian Carn I think was his name

and Greg would it on their lunch hour

when they're supposed to go off and get

a break they'd sit there and create

unreally primitive software back then

they create a Skyline of the city

whatever it was so that every and nobody

saw it except the tape loader but they

Sprint well how they spent an hour or

more creating a how they were

manipulating that it was not like there

were none other tools available back

then and then there were layers on top

of that so I had a computer that could

throw up graphics and good the it was a

nano cyber 3000 I shortened that to

Nancy so Nancy would Heckle me uh would

come on and do stuff so so tell us

quickly some of the highlights of the

the people the people that we still know

now who are active

uh Jack Kirby isn't obviously yeah I

mean J.R Martin so George Martin was uh

what was he like I nice guy had a

hilarious story about

um a writer I think he did this to

another writer where the writer said uh

said uh the story drags here and he said

the Dragon

get dry so they wrote a thing with her

on this boat and they're drifting

through and suddenly a dragon goes by

and never referred to again but the

other writer thought it was added dragon

and did uh but yeah I mean he back then

he was he was not known yeah but and

they're you know out of 650 people

there's probably

120 who are familiar names and I've

listed them and Alan um so Alan Moore

they met in England uh they were over

there for one of the conferences and we

had Sally our production assistant was

there to she records all the footage as

we're as it's being done and making

notes about what was discussed at each

point and Alan Moore comes in and he's

the Shaggy he's still Shaggy with Shaggy

back then yeah and it's huge it's big

guy and his T-shirt says say yo to drugs

and he comes shambling in apparently

what more

and Sally thought we're doomed he was

terrified by the end of the interview

with him she was I love him I want to

have his children and sweet guy yeah and

she was 65 at the point and had he

written Watchmen by that yeah so he had

written Watchman Dave Gibbons we got the

interview with him here's what's

interesting so Dave Gibbons the artist

and Alan Moore and then we had a bunch

of other people

um Charles vest and others I think were

in there commenting on why this was so

groundbreaking um why like it talked

about using the nine panels uh and

creating a sense of time through that

and then sometimes breaking that and on

and on now we're references then to

Mobius and all going way back

um what's interesting is Mark that the

director of The Watchman movie when he

because Mark aswith later worked at

space and got to interview people for

Snyder uh yeah and so he's asking about

it uh watch when he said yeah he said

you know I didn't really get what what

it was or what it was about and then I

saw this program about it and it really

made it clear what the depth was and

Mark went oh was it a guy up in Spanish

yeah so our program is it so that the

show became the clarified for the

director uh that's what why this is so

powerful because he he liked Comics but

didn't get the depth of all of the

Hidden layers so so

um Snyder would have done a crappy job

if it wasn't for you in prison if it

wasn't for Mark he might not have done

the movie I don't know for some people

that's actually uh you know might have

been a good thing because it's a

controversial movie and is it Snyder no

sir what's his name I can't remember his

first name no Jack Snyder anyway yeah

he's the Snyder verse yeah and uh so I

actually like the movie but Alan Moore

did not no well Alan doesn't like

anything anything that's true Ellen he's

he's kind of renounced

and all his uh all the things that he

sold he's he's renounced ownership to

any of them because he doesn't like what

it's funny because he thought everything

was derivative but he did the League of

Extraordinary Gentlemen which was all of

these famous literary characters like so

uh Alan's great so we have Neil Gaiman

is still in the game yeah Neil and Neil

credits uh Mark in Toronto where the

comic book store was and and prisoners

of gravity was making his career because

that's where it started that's where the

Mania started here and we were the first

theater we may not have been the first

interview but we did it right like say

you're a lesser known writer Nancy Cress

and you live in I don't know I think

she's in Minnesota so you go to local

Minnesota station coming up

Nancy Crest who writes books about

robots and space and they've read the

book and they think it's you have any

recipes yeah is that what's your

favorite hamburger ideas then we sit

down with you know and she sits down

with whoever was doing the interview

Mark or or Shirley or Greg in this book

on that section you the authors would

often oh God I don't remember give me a

minute they had to think I was supposed

to sit down and interview Isaac Asimov

but he was in later stages and he said

to me uh he just said I don't think I'll

be any good I'd rather not because my

memory's gone so and I just much as it

would have been wonderful to have him I

kind of backed off right so you didn't

get as Isaac as well Ray Bradbury surely

interviewed him and Shirley's sweetie

she's sitting there and raise a bit of a

flirt so Rey is going so we tell the

guests you always so you don't address

me as surely you would say call me Rick

well he'd forget so but without is most

of the interviewers would be you know

the people who were in on it who

realized what we were doing okay yeah so

Rick well Rick and so on but he kept

well surely and then and things like

well someone as cute as you like okay we

can't use that well you were pretty cute

man I was

and that would actually have been very

good yeah thank you uh Ray but I don't

swing that way but I might if I wasn't

in space that's right you know it is

pretty lonely up here by the way

actually I should tell you that I don't

know if you've heard this but the very

last episode we wanted to do was to have

me Commander this has been great and

I'll be and then it'd be like a light

would come on as if a door had been open

Ricky dinner's ready

anyway the system I better go that's

funny I don't think I remember I've seen

most of the others we never did that but

the action would have been better if you

burned up and re-entry oh yeah the other

thing is here's the other thing we put

in a fake opening so again if he was a

pirate broadcaster so we had this fake

opening called second nature oh yeah

when the show debuted people would turn

it on earlier there was banjo music and

then the shots of Nature and then I

would stand up good evening I'm so I

forgotten the character's name even but

I would do the this week's solar-powered

Night Lights fill us and I do this kind

of and they thought they didn't get the

station right yeah and they went away 45

seconds in it would shh and go after I'd

done a joke and then we realized okay we

can't do this no no

because everybody eating back then with

this clip what else is on Oh I thought

it was going to be oh my prisoners of

gravity you you screwed yourself yeah

exactly if you did so many things wrong

it was hilarious uh but yeah we I so the

one interview that's interesting to me

my favorite thing is is Mark asked with

who is a legend it knows everybody in

comics like at the office people would

call and say Mark I just got the inking

job on uh Superboy what do I charge

they'd be asking who do I he connect all

these people he was one of those people

it's like a maitre d at a great

restaurant just knew everybody and what

they were up to and still to this day

loves all of that and so he's going to

interview Jack Kirby so it's like you

are getting to interview uh all of the

pythons right yeah so they're all going

to sit down

so he's but Jack his wife had said to

Mark um

that Jack's not there anymore so don't

don't let you get and Mark thought if I

can we'll sit for a half hour 20 minutes

and if I can get a quote so he sat down

in Jax there and they liking him up and

then

Mark starts it says

who was the uh was it the Hulk who was

the Hulk based on

the Hulk was based on and he started wow

he came out he just kicked in his fog

lifted he just he spoke Mark asked

question after question and his wife I

think it's her name's Rose is sitting

off there so Marx

uh you know asking the questions and

there's one camera because it's supposed

to be me up in space so there's one

camera on Jack and he's talking right to

Mark and off in the corner Rose is just

awestruck and she starts crying and

Mark's trying not to cry and Jack and

then Mark said at the end of it

thank you so much thank you and any kind

of the

faded away but for that thing sorry so

uh yeah so it was just it was so

powerful and Mark to this day I I will

be moved almost to tears but because and

so then Jack Kirby passed away within a

year or two

um and

the networks you have the footage we had

the only interview footage with Jack

Kirby it was it's like this Legend you

know it's like saying well there's one

interview with John Lennon this was a

guy in that world who was you know Stan

Lee people know about but Jack Kirby and

Stanley was very good at self a

self-promotion and so on but Jack Kirby

Marvel would not be no it would not be

Marvel without this guy and what a

character he's just a New York little

short New York tough guy it was so great

so we got these people talking

um about what they What mattered to them

and their you know speculative fiction

is about imagining possibilities and and

anticipating what could go wrong in the

future and then what the consequences

could be or what the solutions might be

and so you had these people who are

really educated uh well spoken they're

writers right and they and when they saw

their work was being respected man they

just they couldn't every time we saw

them they would come again and or they

would want to see us at a next

conference say you know I'll do another

one of the interesting things about

prisoners of gravity and we'll wrap it

up here is that uh both you and Mark

were lovers of this genre you did the

show out of knowledge and respect and

what's ironic now is the whole Builders

of these pop culture properties one of

the things that we're always arguing

about on our YouTube channels is that

they don't respect the past they don't

read it they don't know it no they're

making up new [ __ ] all the time uh

they're adding characters that never

existed they're changing characters

around that probably it doesn't help

that they're changing them around for

for really no value except for you know

the intersectionalism and and and

um uh you know I'm listening to you and

I'm going I want to see this show again

and I want to go back to that era that

you uh had this show in and and be able

to relive those individuals at the top

of their game when they loved what they

were doing and we were loving consuming

we we loved consuming the products that

they were creating and it seems that

that part is gone I'm glad you I'm glad

you came by yeah this is a terrific

conversation if you guys want uh Rick

and me to talk are more about history

not about well about the prisoners of

gravity and his breasts which he's

showing now his moves

um

will uh we'll we'll get together again

and maybe give us a list of individuals

that maybe Rick can expand on further in

terms of the in terms of Mark on here

too because Mark will Mark was there for

us is he still alive Mark is still alive

yeah he's you know if you can call that

living I hope he's not watching this

oh

well thank you very much thank you man

good to see you good to see you too good

to see you too

so long denizens of the internet tell

what else what's my I can't even

remember my catchphrase oh be seeing you

I can't I can't even remember my ending

catchphrase I have that effect yeah my

phone

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