Disability, Drag and Canberra Culture

I want to pay my respects to the war

injury people of the kulin Nation on

Whose land we are meeting 10 years since

the ndis was established what does its

future hold and more misconduct claims

at Parliament House so how far have we

really come on the panel the minister

for the national disability insurance

scam and government services Bill

shorten

independent

Monique Ryan who is the director of

Neurology at Melbourne's Royal

Children's Hospital before entering

politics disability Advocate Sam Connor

who sits on the board of the autism

self-advocacy Network award-winning

comedian Cabaret singer and writer

Reuben K who is currently touring his

live show around the country and leader

of the National Party in the Senate

Bridget McKenzie who is Shadow Minister

for infrastructure transport and

Regional development also tonight why

drag queens reading to kids is stirring

heated debate

[Music]

thank you

[Music]

hello I'm Patricia carvelas remember you

can live stream us around the country on

iview and all the socials quanda is the

hashtag please get involved

another program will get to your

questions on the ndis but to get us

started tonight here's Julius ting

thanks PK

by any measure last week was a shambolic

week in politics

four days of political Point scoring all

in the name of accountability

all while the community struggles with

the cost of living

although he was prime minister Albanese

who stated he wanted to lead a gentler

Parliament it does take two to tango

so my question to Bill and Bridget how

are you be examples to your colleagues

to bring empathy back into Australian

politics

Bill shorten we'll start with you

last week do you consider it shambolic

I'm afraid it was worse than shambolic

it was toxic it um

it's not how a lot of parliament is it's

but it's certainly not how it should be

so I

I suspect uh

100 of the MPS were probably realize

when they got on the plane and left the

building

that it had been a really depressing

week for Australians

there's a lot of good work going on uh

about a week like that and some of the

actions overshadowed I think a lot of

what a lot of us are trying to do every

day which is make Australia a better

place and help Australians

Bridget there are a lot of really

serious issues going on families are

really struggling what did the Coalition

choose to pursue this line of

questioning and focus on these issues

last week well I think they were serious

and legitimate questions that needed to

be asked in the face of a minister

misleading the Senate and we asked

questions about who knew what when what

was done with that information all very

legitimate questions and you know this

issue when it was last in Parliament was

pursued ferociously by the then

opposition and I think we were very

careful as we could be with our tone but

to also ask legitimate questions of the

government and their ministers not just

around who knew what when but also

around the swiftness of the compensation

payment why some evidence in that

process was explicitly excluded and the

you know substantial nature of it all

legitimate questions and I think it was

the right thing to do okay but didn't

blow up in your face

not in the liberal party

no he's not nor should he be yeah

two years ago when this first came up

when his office was moved by Scott

Morrison at that point was that the

right call what's what's your view on

what should have happened at that point

well I think if you listen to Senator

Thorpe's

um explanation in the chamber it was

resolved to her satisfaction at the time

and I think with all manner of sexual

harassment sexual assault claims like

this it has to be resolved in this case

to to the woman's satisfaction now

sometimes that means women can choose to

say nothing women can choose to take

action and have it resolved between the

two parties and other women choose to

take uh particularly serious incidents

to court as they should be encouraged

and supported to do and so at the end of

the day it is did the woman affect it

feel that it was resolved um to her

satisfaction and and Senator Thorpe

agreed that at that time it was but like

these topics and it happened the last

time that when the shoe was on the other

foot that

staff

men and women but particularly women in

this case who had either gone through a

similar experience themselves or friends

family Etc I had personal experience

with this felt very triggered in that

moment and I think Senator van standing

in the Senate speaking the way he was

completely had that you know Senator

Thorpe had quite a visceral reaction to

that and obviously you've seen how that

played out it was referred to the

president and obviously then when Amanda

stoker

raised her issues then obviously Peter

Dutton took Swift and decisive action

and you know there was a hooray

throughout many offices as a result of

that Swift Action Now Monique I know

you're just a newer MP but there's

obviously been a huge Reckoning in the

parliament about the treatment

particularly of women but broader issues

as well

do you think the place has changed is

there evidence of that well it's hard

for me to say that Patricia is obviously

I'm relatively new to the house as you

say I've only been there for 12 months

I'm told it feels different from what it

felt like before

but I have to say that

it's known to all of us that only 13 of

Women Australian women who are subjected

to sexual harassment or violence

reported

and the politicization of this matter

in the house last week

would be a an active deterrent to anyone

who's considering disclosing that sort

of

experience in Australia and I thought it

was

I can speak for other members of the

Cross bench because we talk to each

other after each question time because

we found it distressing

and and we wanted to stand to our feet

and say that we felt that it was conduct

Unbecoming Parliament

and I think if we learn nothing from

this we have to

decide as a society whether we want our

Parliament really to be

dragging people who've gone through

really difficult experiences

through that sort of experience again it

wasn't ideal it was it I actually

thought it was shameful and uh and I

think

now salmon Reuben you're not you're not

parliamentarians but uh you are no doubt

consumers of what's going on in that

place how did you read it that's why we

look heavier it's

um

yeah I think you know that whole toxic

workplace is for me I'm I'm relatively

old I'm 55 and for me

um being you know touched up by the boss

and

um having people make sexual innuendo to

us in our particular age group Monique

you're of an age right so um was almost

so it was it was a thing that was

accepted back then in the day and it was

yeah it really was and so it's you know

it's culture change really and we need

to understand that it is not acceptable

at all to not have a safe workplace so

as somebody who stocks around Parliament

a fair bit

um I don't think I'd like to work there

to be honest

we're hearing that it is changing it is

you still don't feel like it's Bill's

been there I've been there 14 years

Bill's been there for a little long yeah

15 and it has categorically changed from

when I arrived after the 2000s do you

think it has to yeah yeah I I mean

Bridget made some points about uh Katie

Gallagher I don't think the opposition

was justified to the extent that it went

and I think it had some negative or some

very real effects for a whole lot of

other people but parking the sort of

political point

the following uh 2019 to 2022 in that

time the review was set up by where

we've got Kate Jenkins who's a very

experienced expert in terms of the

rights of women and workplaces

last week doesn't show that things have

changed but why I think that's unfair at

one level is because a whole lot of

other pieces have changed there's

what's now happened is there's now a

parliamentary work support service it's

independent of government it's

independent of the political parties so

that means that staff including

obviously women staff have got somewhere

independent in charge of human resource

management like I know it sounds a

little weird but that never used to

happen no Parliament was well behind

politics was well behind even other

parts of the Australian sector if I can

bring you back to the central question

which was how will you change it to

bring more empathy Bridget if you had

your time again would you really play

last week the same way yeah thinking

about that question

I know yeah absolutely in the same way

with no revision with respect Patricia

um we know Australians are doing it

tough and uh you know this government

and the mortgage increases Etc rents

going through the roof

food inflation's at eight percent Etc

it's bleeding everything but that

doesn't absolve us of the responsibility

as an opposition to actually hold the

government of the day to the count now

last time these issues were raised and

Monique you weren't there but it was

ferocious and the same trauma was

evidenced in staff and colleagues at

that time so that shouldn't absolve so

the responsibility of actually pursuing

these issues as long as they are

legitimate and we were very careful to

make sure

we were our tone was correct and that

we're actually pursuing the issue not

the person Reuben

what do you think I think this isn't a

parliamentary issue I don't think it's a

partisan issue but I do think there are

partisan motives for people to be

investigating things I think going after

Katie Gallagher was a distraction method

and a blame avoidance tactic and I think

it makes it more difficult for survivors

of sexual abuse to report that abuse and

it further perpetuates uh sexual abusers

to feel like they're entitled to women's

bodies

and this

and this gets us to the topic of our

online poll we're asking you should

politicians who quit their political

parties be required to resign from

Parliament you can cast your votes

anonymously on the Q a Facebook Twitter

and YouTube accounts or the ABC News

Instagram account will bring you the

results later our next question is from

Aditi ya diva

hi Dr Ryan in light of your recent

workplace dispute settlement where your

former Chief of Staff alleged

unreasonable working hours that were

frankly unaustralian-like how does the

reality of a political career differ

from what you initially imagined and

what steps do you believe should be

taken to address unsustainable workplace

cultures not only in the parliament but

across all sectors

[Applause]

um look the issue I had with with the

staffer earlier this year was a really

distressing and sad situation uh it was

really very difficult

I can't actually I'm not actually not

allowed to discuss in any detail because

it is the subject of a legal settlement

if people want to know the details the

judge's decision is available online

um and I feel that I I think I probably

need to say that I felt that I acted

with personal Integrity throughout that

matter

it is not a normal workplace the Prime

Minister said that in question time

today it is in no way a normal workplace

Parliament it is a place where people

work long hours and they work very very

hard

uh

it is a challenging place to be the

Senate set till 4 30 on Saturday morning

and this is a massive building people

saying they're like they don't feel safe

it's hard to understand how you can put

people through the sorts of hours that

people do work in that place so it

it changes

well I came to Parliament I worked in

public in the public hospital system

with Junior doctors who were doing

24-hour shifts

when I was training I used to do 36 hour

shifts and then having one night off and

come back and do it again so yeah things

change over time I'm not saying that

that's okay it wasn't okay and it isn't

okay for in lots of Industries it's not

as an issue that's not confined to

Parliament and I think it's there are

generational changes in what people are

prepared to do the hours they're

prepared to do how they're prepared to

balance work and life and I think that

generationally really quite difficult

for many of us especially in those

workforces where there are shortages and

you kind of feel like you have to do the

work what do you think has to change in

Parliament well there is some thought

about that if you look at the houses

sorry the seats in Parliament

um the size of our electorates is now

almost 50 what it was in 19 early 1980s

when there was last a redistribution and

there has been some thought about having

more members of the house but the

problem with that is you have to then

pay for politicians and no one wants to

vote for more politicians plus would

have replications for the Senate as well

so there are things that can be done the

fact is that you know we're dealing with

electorates which are 50 bigger than

they used to be

many public service departments have

been eviscerated in recent years and so

we have an increased workload for

Centrelink phases a whole lot of other

sorts of issues people can contact us

much more easily than they ever could

contact us before because everyone's got

a computer in their hand

they get on the phone they contact us

about things the workload is really

quite significant and so Australia might

actually have to think seriously about

increasing the size of the house

although I'm sure there'll be some

pushback has there been changes in your

own office though as a consequence of

this

oh you know you I started as a

parliamentarian 12 months ago

um I've learned and adapted and my team

has learned it adapt it as we've gone

along but as a consequence of this case

have you had to put in new kind of

regimes

uh I would

no not really I mean the work the

workload is what it is

there was as you probably may know an

extra staffer allocated to all House of

in the budget in the budget yes to to

all members of the House of reps is that

a consequence of this case

now listen about the individual case I

should say uh I know Monique and I also

know the former employee I've dealt with

them very well in different regards so I

don't really want to talk about what

you've resolved I'm pleased you have a

resolution but the concert

or other stuff yeah but there's a

there's a fundamental issue which

Australians

Australians don't necessarily want to

hear which is are not two of the people

in this audience or some people but

Australians sort of think the

politicians are overpaid they won't be

happy till we're hitchhiking up the

freeway and camping on the Lorna

Parliament and I understand that at one

level but at the other side of it let's

just tell it straight in my own office

since I become ndis Minister this isn't

through my portfolio but I've had 21 000

matters come to us like you don't want

to burn your staff out and also when

you're an electorate officer no one ever

goes to see your politician when you're

happy let's be really honest uh and so

it can be quite emotionally draining for

your staff they've got to put up with

everyone who's unhappy with everything

and then you've all got to answer for

state governments local Council so yes

I'm pleased there's an extra resource I

get that it's a privilege to serve in

Parliament and it's a privilege to work

in politics I'd encourage you you know

if you're in year 12 or what you're

politics is still worth getting involved

in but one of the things that we haven't

done very well in the past is set up the

sort of expectation and management of

employers employees we've sort of

assumed because it's politics everything

sorts itself out in some sort of

freewheeling way and what we do need to

do and become better at is the

professional treatment of all staff put

out the expectations and just be

straighter with people like what we can

and can't do I did hear

is what you're hearing here a really

strong incentive for you to go and work

in Parliament House in Canberra yeah of

course I'm just banging down the door

good on you you should be it should be

it's a it's a as Bill said it's a huge

privilege to serve your country serve

your community we all love our country

we want to our

our nation to be safer stronger more

prosperous going forward more

sustainable we've just got different

ways of making that happen yeah it is a

wonderful job yeah yeah I'm just coming

back to what was alluded to now

obviously this toxic workplace culture

shouldn't be normalized in any industry

and sort of what Dr Ryan sort of

mentioned this isn't just a problem in

Parliament this is a problem that exists

in all sectors especially in hospitals

how should we address it across all

sectors yeah really good question

Bridget

[Laughter]

history has

I'm a national party Senator and you

know if I go out into Rural and Regional

communities often people are getting up

in the wee hours the morning to milk a

herd of cattle so that we can have fresh

milk on our our tables every morning Etc

so I think

how people work and the effort they need

to put into derive results is often a

result of the industry they work in at

also their own personal work ethic I

mean I grew up in a small business

family we had five family holidays in 20

years because Dad would never take time

off and that's just the reality for a

whole lot of Australians that we also

have to recognize not everyone's an

employee a lot of people are you know

it's mum dad the kids on a Saturday and

maybe one or two others running a

business making sure they can pay the

bills and keep a roof over their head so

we need to have structures in place that

are flexible enough to recognize that

difference and and also if people want

to work hard they should be able to

afford be afforded that opportunity as

well Reuben do you do you hear this and

think I just don't know what that had to

do with the question

um well he was not I just feel like

but I'm talking about mum and dad

businesses we're not talking about small

businesses we're talking about large

businesses with huge pressures on them

time constraints and under-resourced

that is going to absolutely breed a

toxic workplace and that's true in all

sectors so what are you going to do

about it

um because that's the question right

comment for example question yeah all

right well bills bills in government

yeah yeah he is

shift the blame

she's actually right he is in government

thank you yeah yeah okay two quick

things the first thing I'd say is we ask

and I'm going to talk about the public

sector but it's not just public sector

okay I get that but in the public sector

we've seen them hollowed out jobs taken

Contracting out so if we if we want to

have great health care if we want to

have great ndis if we want to have great

support then we have to bring more

people back in so that there's more

people more people to help do the job

but the other thing I'm going to say

which you'll no doubt uh be the source

of questions in the Senate from the

Coalition one tip I can give you when

you go into a workplace join a union

because that way if you're doing it hard

[Applause]

it was Franklin Roosevelt arguably

America's greatest president who said

that if he worked in a factory he would

join a union all right that doesn't make

us communist

plenty to get to tonight I'd like to

bring in Jeffrey rain

thanks PK my question is to Reuben drag

has been an intrinsic part of our

entertainment and culture forever iconic

characters have made us laugh made us

cry and I suspect all of our panelists

enjoyed iconic characters like day

Bender Mrs Doubtfire and the movie

Priscilla Queen of the Desert now all of

a sudden it has become a dirty word

something to be feared why is this

happening now and are you and the drag

Community fearful for the future and for

your own safety

thank you for that question

um first off let's define drag drag is

working on a bit of makeup and a costume

it's as simple as that it has no other

definition drag itself the term does not

define content and it does not Define

aesthetic one could argue that all of

the panelists tonight are in Drag

[Applause]

I was thinking that and and then we

would really Define or at least separate

because there is confusion here in

society that are in the public forum

that drag and being trans are the same

thing they are not mutually exclusive

but they are very different things and

that's key to this and then we get down

to what this is really about which is

drag queen Story Time and drag queen

story time is simply a drag queen

stepping into a library in a sparkly

outfit reading a story and singing some

songs to kids that's it

drag and span art forms as long as you

like it can be an adult-only Club

performance it can be something as

simple as this and it's necessary

because drag queen story time does

something important it opens kids eyes

to a world that is diverse and

reflective of reality and then it offers

queer kids an opportunity to see

themselves and if queer kids don't see

themselves represented in this world how

can they Envision a future with them in

it

one percent of trans and gender diverse

kids attempt suicide in their life

so when people say oh we care about the

children they don't care about that

statistic they don't care that 16 of

kids live in poverty in this country

they don't care that one in four

children in this country is on the brink

of illiteracy drag queen story time has

been going on in libraries for 10 years

before this because of public demand and

we've seen this sort of rhetoric oh we

care about the kids they're coming for

the kids before we saw it in safe

schools we saw it in marriage equality

we saw it

um just recently now with Rishi sunak

even mocking trans people to his party

in a video that's been leaked online and

we're seeing it now at drag queen story

time and all this does is send a message

to queer kids that their lives are not

as important as the points we score

debating them in open forums

I want to

I take the points made by Reuben but

this has existed for some time but it's

now become this lightning rod issue this

divisive issue we're seeing protests

we're seeing workers not feeling safe to

put these things on what's happened

I think it's just weaponizing of

difference you know of the the idea of

diversity has become a dirty word and I

mean for me I find it really offensive

as somebody who I'm a member of the

queer Community I'm a lesbian

um

I find it wildly offensive that I'm also

a child a survivor of childhood sexual

abuse and people are using words like

groomer

you know to describe people who are

reading stories to children in libraries

you know I spent 25 years being a youth

leader in a country town and one of the

people that I worked with ended up in

jail for 16 years the person who helped

me catch that person was my support

worker who happened to be a drag queen

on the site also had a you know

um they don't get paid enough no

qualification

in child in child protection as well

multitasking absolutely and so the idea

that you've you know that you can just

say that somebody is a criminal because

of who they love or because of the way

they dress or you know this is what

we've done forever right we've looked at

people who are different and we've said

you're wrong and you're bad and you

deserve not to be have the same rights

as other people and you know that's what

I see is at the bottom of all of them

yeah I'd like to bring you in Bridget

you've no doubt watch this it's happened

across the country particularly New

South Wales and Victoria where there've

been some cancellations

do you support these drag time story

times well you know as an adult attended

my chair of drag shows I'm probably not

the adult only stuff but um

yeah anyway

are fun right

um in the main but for me this is about

parental choice right uh parents if

Society is actually choosing to have

open access drag queen reading at local

libraries then you as a parent the same

as you have to decide when you're going

to do sex ed with your children when

you're actually going to let them get a

phone what they're going to watch on TV

it is your decision and your right as a

parent to decide this is something I

want my child to be involved in or it is

something that I don't want my child to

be involved in and that is what should

be a respectful democracy should look

like neither side of this debate should

be penalized it's a parent's right and

responsibility to really ensure that the

movies their kids are watching the books

they're reading so sit with

um so how does that sit with you that

they're being canceled that parents

value system

because they're actually been canceled

this is not a choice what's happening is

mobs are assembling outside libraries

Librarians are getting death threats and

libraries and local councils having to

add security because people are trying

to use this as a lightning rod issue and

they're using children as a shield for

their bigotry parental choices

as a method to solve anything I mean if

I did I'd be living in a different

country and it's probably only one

political yeah there have been these

protests Bill shortened actually led to

the cancellation of the events because I

take your point it's a Parent's Choice

whether this isn't it or not this isn't

about Free Speech or the right to

protest because that's fine these aren't

protesters these are aggressors these

aren't freedom of speech this is

I was doing my show in Sydney and as I

was doing my show down enmore Road came

50 men charging chanting The Lord's

Prayer waving crucifixes with a sign

saying Reuben come to us we want to

forgive you that is not peaceful I know

that is not a peaceful protest that is a

Lynch Mob we've seen Nazis on the steps

of parliament twice now that is twice

too many what message you'll be sending

not just to kids but to the rest of the

world as to what Australia is

I'll listen I don't think it's a matter

of Parental choice if a parent doesn't

want to send their kid to the library

they don't have to it's not compulsory

but how you know how did we

I love Melbourne I love Victoria I've

lived here my whole life I think it's

great that we can get kids to go to the

library so you know at some point

someone should thank some of the drag

performance for getting kids to the

library and make it more interesting to

read books

but in my own counter Mooney Valley some

of these are intolerant uh you know the

and people somehow feel threatened by a

drag queen

um so made nervous by a drag queen a

whole mob of them had to turn up in a

group because they couldn't talk to them

one-on-one they were scared I don't want

those cowards in my community uh this is

not freedom of speech it's just it's

American culture wars and we should just

say to the the people doing it you're

not welcome this there's enough people

in this country who are middle of the

road we're sick of intolerant shelters

and we should just say no if a kid wants

to go to the library and have a story

read to them by a drag queen or a person

or koala suit or whatever that's fine

let's just do it

all right

and if this discussion is Raising any

difficulties for you or anyone you know

the numbers for Lifeline cue life and

kids helpline are there on your screen

and if you're just joining us you're

watching q a live with Bill shorten

Monique Ryan Sam Connor Reuben K and

Bridget McKenzie

now to your questions on the ndis here's

Mark Toomey and his son Jeff

Bill shorten the robo deck Royal

commission revealed the people at the

heart of robodet were also involved in

the core processes of the ndis including

what you once called robo ndis

you said that Robo ndis was leaving

vulnerable Australians worse off

Robo

ndis.org is a network of more than 500

people who have been harmed by appalling

decisions to minimize funding for people

with serious permanent disabilities

you say that plans are no longer being

prepared by algorithms but plant bad

plans are still being forced on

vulnerable people

this is not just a historical problem we

see new cases every day

I'm concerned about what could happen to

vulnerable people like my son if this

continues

next

thank you um

Mark I follow what you are put online

and so I do read it and I know you've

got a very clear view

just but I want to just make two or

three very brief points first one is the

robo debt Royal commission and robodet

was a terrible breach of unlawful

Behavior over four and a half years

I helped organize the class action with

very strong plaintiffs Gordon legal and

we at the door of the Court when we were

finally going to call the ministers and

Senior public servants in surprise

surprise they settled they pay 1.8

billion dollars back to nearly half a

million Australians who the government

was unlawfully collecting Social Service

debts using the basis that an algorithm

had said you are a debt they didn't

bother to find out from the person the

circumstances they just said your debt

and they reverse donors we've now got

the Royal commission that's going to

report in the week of up to July the 7th

and we're going to find out who knew

what okay so that's taking you to the

question yeah but that's I'm setting up

that was bribo dead done uh what the way

we're doing ndis now is not Robo debt we

are not using an algorithm I know you

have a different View and I'm happy to

keep talking about it we're not using an

algorithm to assert a person's plan The

ndis Works where you have an

individualized plan

um and they use various inputs to it one

of the inputs they use is a targeted

targeted package where it's just it's a

tool for planners then they look at the

person's reports anyway I don't want to

bore you all with it no don't buy I

don't know much about it being it's not

not boring but what it is is let's just

be technically accurate you're saying

that there are people being harmed by it

what are you specifically saying is

happening I'm saying that people are

still getting plans

that are substantially less than the

support that they need are you saying

it's because of

because of Robo because of the entire

process okay that the ndis uses it's not

just a computer system okay it's a set

of policies and procedures well that

rules and

education of planners

and systems and data capture

and and things like the fiction

of a primary disability which still

exists okay

Mark a set of three things the third

thing I was going to say is we've been

inherited the ndis it is enough it was

in a far bigger mess the way it was run

than even I anticipated in opposition we

are doing and I accept that there have

been poor planning decisions made in the

past I accept we need to improve the

quality and caliber of the planning

decisions and we make a whole lot of

arrangements and maybe in further

discussion I can tease some of that with

you I accept the premise of I don't

accept it's Robo debt I do accept that

the agency hasn't been well run we've

now got 50 of people with disability on

the board of the agency 10 of the 11

senior reports in the agency at the time

of the election are now gone we've now

changed the leadership and we are now

investing in a way in the scheme with

co-designed that hasn't happened in the

past okay but we still had a way to go I

agree with that part Sam I know that

you've got concerns about changes in the

ndis

I'm kind of moving over to Mark away

from you Bill sorry

um it's okay

so you know we've had such enormous

issues over the last decade around the

ndis it's been cut and narrowed and

capped and you know there's huge issues

in the way that it's been run there's

been more and more red tape put in place

and it's become more like the system

that we moved away from than the system

that we were moving to

and people with disability have been let

down today I've spent most of my day

dealing with

stories around Joshua who died at a

train station didn't have enough support

I know that bill has rung and spoken

about a picture on the screen just tell

us what happened with Josh so Josh this

is Joshua he's 24 years old he was a

young person in Perth in my circle of

people who didn't have enough support

went to a train station got into an

altercation was tackled by transit

guards and died on the platform at Perth

train station

so

this is just you we've let this young

person down as a society I don't care

who's let him down you know I don't care

if it's covered measures I don't care if

it's the ndis I don't care if it's a

transit system we've let a young person

with a disability down

um but it's the case for so many people

with disability right now you know so

um we're just finding it the changes

that have been made are going to be very

very difficult to undo I think you know

we'll be talking about algorithms and

using Salesforce and all of those things

that have been put in place we've built

this thing and changing it is going to

be a very very difficult thing we've put

in place red tape and barriers it's been

focused on all the wrong things because

it was driven by a we must not spend

money on people who are not productive

mindset that's right but it's an

investment yeah but it's an investment

team right so we know that it inspector

GDP so we need to make sure that we

invest in the ndis and we make sure that

people with disability have the right to

participate in the same way as other

Australians and investing in that scheme

is going to return to Australia

families I I have two new members this

week

who've been forced to give up their

professional careers

because the ndis has cut the funding to

their dependents who have disabilities

so that no longer can mum and or dad go

to work

Monique the government is making

significant changes I mean the ministers

right here to the ndis are you worried

about some of the direction it might go

in

look I think that it's very clear that

there have been significant problems

with the culture and capacity of the

nuis I'm actually on the Parliamentary

ndis committee and we reported recently

on on a number of issues but in my

previous life I was a pediatric

neurologist and I spent

I don't know how many hours filling out

forms and then writing letters and then

having used the wrong words and having

to rewrite the letters and having

families literally in tears because they

could see that the inequity someone with

a similar level of disability received

one package someone else received a

different package

asking for somebody who's not you who

has no knowledge of the particular

person that you're writing for asking

for an independent opinion and and

people with genetic disorders that are

lifelong being asked to prove every year

that they have the genetic disorder yeah

that's not hard to fix people you know

kids with degenerative neurological

disorders and me having to justify why

they need Services when they're not

actively improving you know it's there

were things that were really really

difficult but you know you can't you

can't turn the Titanic overnight this is

a big system there's 550 000 Australians

receiving the ndis support and I do

believe that the minister has a

commitment to it I've met the board of

the ndis I think they have a commitment

to it it is so important to Australians

yes I I had so many patients who would

tell me that it changed their lives that

that it was a wonderful wonderful thing

for them and I think those of us who are

on the committee and who are actively

involved in the ndis feel so

passionately about it and we do want to

make it better okay

let's keep this conversation going and

I'd like to bring in Cheryl's Slade now

and Cheryl before we actually get to

your question can you just share your

own story with us yeah of course thank

you

um so I'm Cheryl I've got two lovely

gorgeous kids at home I've finally

gotten out for the day

um remember that so I've got a

seven-year-old he's autistic and ADHD

his PDA

um and which is pathological demand

avoidance and he is Alfred which is an

eating disorder

um and I'm having to homeschool him now

because of all the anxiety and all the

stress that he's had

throughout his whole whole little life

that he can't he can't physically get

out of the house often because he just

goes into complete shutdown

which is a lot on me and then my little

um 19 month old he has just recently

been diagnosed with global developmental

delay with an expressive language delay

he's also looking at autism spectrum

disorder as well

um but that

when brought us to my husband and I

looking at what how could we help these

two young little boys live out their

lives

um improve their mental health

um because we had a little boy that was

crying on the floor or going mummy

please don't make me please don't make

me go to school I can't deal with it

and my heart's breaking my husband's

heart's breaking

um and then we looked at ourselves and

gone hang on a minute we struggled like

this when we were children too figured

out that where both

um autistic and ADHD ourselves went

through the assessments and all that

stuff

um we have gone we're in both both in

Burnout I've had to stop working to be

able to help my boys 24 7.

um my husband's in complete burnout but

he can't stop he can't take time off

to get better because he's the only one

bringing in

um money so so Cheryl I'd love to you to

put your question to the panel yeah

so when we decided to apply for ndr

sales for ourselves we were told that we

were not disabled enough

as we were able to look after our family

and our children that we had a marriage

and a job so how is this Fair on the

parents and the children in the

community at Large

Sam we'll start with you

yeah there's

thank you for that one of the really big

issues that we've had in the past has

been where we have this idea of informal

support you know that we have a husband

or we have a wife or we have I was told

that by Scout Troop were an informal

support they didn't know that they were

informally supporting me in the

community when they were pushing me up a

hill there we go

there's there's a lot of um

a lot of the issues that we've had I

think around ndis have been around

people looking for reasons to justify

people not getting into the scheme and

limiting and capping support it's been a

massive issue for people with disability

especially in the autistic Community I

know that a lot of I I'm autistic and

having a and have ADHD as well and also

have children who have ADHD and are

autistic as well so absolutely know what

you're saying it's really become a

massive issue especially when people

um autistic people are demonized and you

know saying that we're causing the

scheme to blow out and this kind of

thing the reality of it is is that a lot

of people who are autistic need just a

little bit of support in order to go a

long way and so getting rid of those

barriers is going to do the scheme

overall yeah Bill Sean I'm going to

bring you in as the minister responsible

the government announced that it is

essentially

getting a new growth Target of eight

percent for the ndis

inevitably you know basic maths will

tell you some people are going to have

to miss out if you're reigning it in

like that

first of all I've got to just say to you

Cheryl we're with your individual matter

let's get your details like the

decisions are made independent of

politicians but I think I mentioned in

an earlier answer we my office has taken

up 13 000 matters so you know we'll talk

to you about your individual matter but

it's going to your bigger point in the

point that Sam made first thing I've got

to say is

you know Mark Sam people have had bad

experiences that's your truth and that

you have had bad experiences I'm not

going to Gaslight you and say you

haven't I feel no obligation to justify

the nine years of the Coalition but what

I do need to say to everyone who's

watching this who's either on the scheme

why she knows nothing about the scheme

under labor the ndis is here to stay

we want to make sure every dollar gets

through to the participants For Whom the

scheme was set up the scheme is not

capped I don't have a view that if in

April of a financial year we've spent

the money we tell everyone with

disability your disability will be magic

away for two months to come back on July

the first so no but you are reigning in

its growth yeah but I've got it's

important I said it because this ndis is

too important for quick you know quick

five second grabs

I think there is waste in the scheme but

I don't start from the proposition

that's the fault of the participant but

I do think that there have been clumsy

decisions made by the agency so we

intend to invest in the agency so we can

stop some of the stupidity because if

you get the initial plan right then a

lot of the other grief doesn't happen

but beyond that there is unethical

Behavior there are some service

providers and there's a lot of great

ones okay a lot of great ones but let's

tell the truth there are some service

providers who when they see someone come

along they ask the family do you have an

ndis package or don't you and if you

have an India's package they charge

double that's right there are people

right now you can go on you know we saw

it on Gumtree recently where you've got

a service provider providing

accommodation support they're selling

the business and they're selling the

person it's almost akin to human

trafficking where they say oh this is a

good 300K a year business and you've got

the client as well so there I think I

can reduce the rate of growth which is

at 14 yeah and get it to more rate of

growth around eight percent as a Target

not a cap just like just alone

uh listen you can I challenge the ABC to

go and Survey all the listeners say do

you think that some providers are having

a lend of the scheme and I tell you what

you'll get 90 yes is it is it is it 74

billion dollars worth of wars

the number you're quoting is over 10

years okay here's a couple of simple

reforms we're putting and this has been

a bit of the debate and I get that we've

got to bring people with us and we've

got to test it and keep refining it but

at the moment 70 of participants are on

an annual plan

that is such a that is just lunacy it

means that everyone focuses on getting

them placing it on Bill like when you're

saying I mean it's well just seven and

over 70 of people 2014 Tony Abbott said

that we were going to have a growth

Target around health and education and

you came out very strongly and said it's

a cut right so I know I know deep in

your heart you're not comparing me to

Tony Abbott and you don't

she's trying to do

which is a reduction in the spending

just dealing with roots alone well

there's six reforms actually uh one is

better capability in the agency second

one is stamping out unethical Behavior

third one is to tackle price gouging

fourth one is to get the states to step

up I know I'm meeting them

I want to bring you in Bridge because I

didn't I didn't mentioned your question

of an answer okay

after that

I'm dead man walking

talk to it friends yep click

um yeah I'm am in Furious agreement with

Bill around the provider piece as

someone that represents the regions we

were hearing these horrific stories of

providers flying maybe from Melbourne up

into you know Mildura for for that sake

visiting three different clients and

charging each of them for the one

airfare of just incredible

um so I think that's fantastic I think

Bill actually has the toughest job in

government this is a critical scheme for

all Australians we are all behind a

successful and sustainable ndis for our

most vulnerable and you know he's got to

make that happen with the budget

pressures that he's got and it's not

going to be easy our the prime minister

is relying on Bill shorten to get this

right no pressure no pressure but the

good news is

to keep me honest you know disabled and

vulnerable Australians and their fan

families that this scheme needs to be

world class for us all it's changing

lives yeah okay thank you so much Cheryl

for sharing your story

next we'll hear from Becky Bauer

so Reuben first of all it's great to see

you here

um and I just want to say

um as a pastor that I'm sorry for the

hurt and hate that you've experienced

particularly from Christian Community

particularly recently

you're a comedian you tell jokes

um I guess my question though is what

impact do you believe your joke on the

project did have and do you believe that

telling that joke by Straight person

would have had the same result just

before you answer that I reckon context

matters because yeah just before we get

you don't want to tell the joke again do

you

no this isn't bulletproof no but I do in

all seriousness I do think people may

have missed it and not know what we're

talking about and I think people should

have the right to know what we're

talking we're talking about earlier in

the year you shared a joke on the

project it was very controversial a lot

of people were offended by it and you

said I love Jesus I love any man who can

get nailed for three days straight and

come back for more that was the joke it

was more in the delivery but yeah it was

as an ABC presenter that would like to

stay being employed I did that with a

very straight

um straight delivery and I understand

why people were offended the question

though

right obviously Christians were offended

and that's certainly their right to

express that but but on the question of

whether a straight person had made the

joke you would have gotten a different

reaction what's your thoughts on that uh

I know it's that

that joke has been told by straight

people Ricky Gervais devotes almost 90

percent of his routine to tearing down

religion Dave Chappelle does it large

big name straight Comics do this all the

time this isn't about the joke this is

about who was telling it this is about a

queer person

this is about a queer person not wanting

to be the butt of the joke but making

the joke and having a voice not being

the political football but commenting on

the game and when that happens they want

us to become invisible and we don't do

that because if we are not visibly queer

then the most vulnerable in society

never become visible they disappear and

we lose you or lose too many of your

children to crap like this

um

now no one no one is challenging people

have the right to respond however they

like to these things and if people are

offended they're offended but there is a

question though around freedom of speech

humor the way that we express ourselves

where is that line

oh I know just an easy one for you yeah

uh let's go to section 18. at sea but um

you know I I am a person of faith and it

wasn't just the Christian Community

um that got offended the Islamic

community did as well

um although I guess

Christians have been persecuted for over

two thousand years give it a break

I'm just standing next to a Jewish

homosexual and you're going to say

Christians have been persecuted

I'm sorry thank you

um so you know it comes with the

territory at the end of the day

um I don't I think I would have been

equally offended I had anyone said that

joke so and that's I'm only speaking for

myself and my faith but that's me but

would you have filled my DMs with death

threats because that's what this

particular question is about death

threats too absolutely everyone on this

panel has had death threats into there

that's a left out I've had no death

threats so

I mean I think we could probably go

toe-to-toe on negative social media

intake let's go for it but yeah you know

and I don't think anybody should get

death threats for what they say right

but I also think that we live in a

pluralist society

um we're one of our great strengths one

of the great Multicultural countries in

the world that has remained relatively

peaceful around religious

um you know antagonism and so I'm

probably I wouldn't be going near those

jokes but I mean you're a comedian

you're an artist so you're going to do

what you're going to do but yeah there's

something to be there's something to be

said for were the context that this joke

existed in as well and I deliberately

said on the project that this joke is a

direct response to me receiving hate

from Christian people from a very

um

innocuous interview I did with children

for Channel 4 in the UK that resulted in

me being called a groomer and me having

my DMs filled with you have to accept

Jesus love your burn in hell all of the

different tropes since the project uh I

can't even begin to count the amount of

Articles have been written about me uh

calling me lewd demanding for apologies

my phone has been confiscated and combed

over by three different state police

organizations

my parents have been instructed to not

open anything that comes addressed to me

my addresses and their addresses are on

priority response lists and have been

scrubbed from the Electoral role so they

can't be found as I said in Sydney there

were mobs wanting to Lynch me so I think

there are comedians telling far worse

jokes who receive far less I don't think

this is about one joke

thank you everyone has the right to

respond how they like

and we're going to leave it there and we

can bring you the results of our online

poll now we asked you should politicians

who quit their political parties be

required to resign from Parliament more

than 8 000 of you responded here's the

results compiled from our social

channels yes 59 no 31 which is

interesting I'm sure that was 10 percent

and to finish tonight's discussion

here's Alison Davies

a clause in the ABC Charter states that

one of the functions of the corporation

is to encourage and promote the musical

dramatic and Performing Arts in

Australia do members of the panel think

that as a consequence of the 120

redundancies being made within the

organization it remains possible the ABC

can achieve this goal okay that's a

question about the ABC announcement this

way for the restructure it focuses on

Art so I'll give you the first go on

this Reuben

I think the Arts is changing very

quickly and art is now being made in

several different streams alongside the

pre-existing streams of theater Visual

Arts TV

but slicing down the ABC or perhaps we

might even call it a reform which is

just another word for a cut means that

we're trying to cover an ever-expanding

Waterfront which with much much less

resources and the sad thing is Australia

is one of the international leaders in

the Arts it's our greatest form of

overseas diplomacy and we are the first

people to try and cut the branch from

beneath our feet while we're climbing

the tree yeah

thank you well

um you know I've been on the wrong end

of um Andrew Pope proven's excellent

journalism in my political life but to

see

the ABC our public broadcaster not have

a political editor in Parliament press

Gallery I find incredible and there's

another 119 people behind him uh who

help the public broadcaster do what the

public broadcaster should do which is

arts and culture

serving Rural and Regional Australia

because

no one else makes money out there with

with commercial TV and it is and having

the investment to take the time to do

the investigative journalism right that

other commercial entities can't and so I

find it incredible that the government

has given more money to the ABC and yet

the ABC is cutting the very

um core of what makes it a public

broadcaster over uh social media like to

think they're cutting that

and we're going to get more Tick Tock

and Instagram and what have you the ABC

and I'm certainly no spokesperson for

the ABC but the statement and the

announcement Bill shorten is incredible

about a digital transformation saying

it's about meeting audiences where they

are that's the logic behind it

well I appreciate the question uh the

minister for communications is Michelle

Roland she's very smart lady and she's

asked the um

the ABC's announced it's got a five-year

plan and this is part of their Five-Year

Plan we respect the uh operational

Independence of the ABC

so if this was a decision which perhaps

this audience

didn't like about something that there'd

be they don't want the government

interfering with the day-to-day running

of the ABC

but you're saying but this seems at odds

with its values what our Minister Roland

has asked for the ABC is to explain to

us how they intend to roll out their

five-year plans and what's the logic

behind it and perhaps in that process

there'll be

some broader debate within the ABC about

what they might have thought seemed to

be the right initial move and hopefully

maybe some people will reconsider and

say well maybe we could do we get where

we want to get to but without

necessarily this particular path and I

am vaguely concerned with the news

editor in Canberra Mr proven that this

came out of the blue to him and I do

think this is a lesson for all

organizations but don't drop change on

top of the heads of your employees

because they don't deserve that and

order the people they deal with do you

think it was the beer fish

it's our ABC and we love it we love the

book the book show gone poetry show gone

you know we we pay taxes for things like

the ABC and not as I agree with you

Alison I think we'll have difficulty uh

with the ABC meeting its Charter with

that appropriate funding and this needs

to be reviewed as a matter of versions

how about Bill shorten's view that the

ABC should operate independently it

obviously does and should

politicians can have a view of course

but where is that line well you know

funding from the ABC has been cut for

over a period of time and the increased

funding that was put into the last

budget and it just brought us back to

sort of where it was five four or five

years ago I suspect that this isn't

enough funding there and I think more

money Bill go away yeah

more money Bill well I like your

newfound socialism anyway

[Laughter]

okay now that is all we have time for

tonight and thank you to our paddle Bill

shorten Minnie Ryan Sam Connor Reuben K

and Bridget McKenzie

thank you for sharing your stories and

questions

and Q a is taking a break for a few

weeks we'll be back on Monday July the

24th until then good night

foreign

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